War on Christmas

[Regulus]

[quote="TheLionPrince"]So, yes, I believe a "War on Christmas" does exist.[/quote]

I don't.

[quote]The term, "holiday tree", is too generic, and needs to be specific about which holiday it is being used for. [/quote]

Because I totally disagree with this.

[Woeler]

It's actually not a war on Christmas. It's just people realizing it's another stolen holiday along many. The pagans of northern Europe celebrated (and continue to celebrate) Yule at that time, long before Jesus was born and most of present-day Christmas customs, including carols, Christmas tree etc. have, beyond any doubt, origins in Celtic or Germanic winter solstice customs. The same goes for the ancient Roman-Pagan festival of Saturnalia. It wasn’t until 350 CE that the Church of Rome declared December 25 as the day of “Christ’s” birth, in order to ease the process of converting pagans to this new religion.

Do we have a war on Saturnalia, or a war on Yule? No, so why do people think a (copied) Christian holiday IS being fought?
I'm gonna be honest with everyone: It's one big piece of Christian butthurtness. In Europe the majority of the people say ''holidays'', you hear nobody complaining over here...

[TheLionPrince]

[quote="Regulus"][quote="TheLionPrince"]So, yes, I believe a "War on Christmas" does exist.[/quote]

I don't.

[quote]The term, "holiday tree", is too generic, and needs to be specific about which holiday it is being used for. [/quote]

Because I totally disagree with this.[/quote]

You disagree with everything I say. So, I'm not surprised.

[quote="Woeler"]It's actually not a war on Christmas. It's just people realizing it's another stolen holiday along many. The pagans of northern Europe celebrated (and continue to celebrate) Yule at that time, long before Jesus was born and most of present-day Christmas customs, including carols, Christmas tree etc. have, beyond any doubt, origins in Celtic or Germanic winter solstice customs. The same goes for the ancient Roman-Pagan festival of Saturnalia. It wasn’t until 350 CE that the Church of Rome declared December 25 as the day of “Christ’s” birth, in order to ease the process of converting pagans to this new religion.[/quote]

Correct a mundo!

[quote="Woeler"]Do we have a war on Saturnalia, or a war on Yule? No, so why do people think a (copied) Christian holiday IS being fought? I'm gonna be honest with everyone: It's one big piece of Christian butthurtness.[/quote]

Because more often than not, groups like he American Civil Liberties Union have started court cases to have images and other material referring to Christmas removed from public property. One case such as ACLU of New Jersey v. Schundler (1999) appealed to have the a menorah (although a symbol of Hanukkah), a creche, and a Christmas tree at New Jersey City Hall removed. Although a site from ACLU.com states the government being used to promote religious beliefs is unconstitutional, it is mentioned the City Hall also had large plastic figures of Santa Claus and Frosty the Snowman, a red sled, and Kwanzaa symbols. With symbols of Christianized Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, and secular symbols (Santa Claus, Frosty the Snow man) all being allowed on the City Hall, the City Hall is not establishing a singular religious holiday customs, but all religious and secular symbols. So, why does the ACLU just go after mainly the Christmas symbols?

[Woeler]

[quote="TheLionPrince"]Because more often than not, groups like he American Civil Liberties Union have started court cases to have images and other material referring to Christmas removed from public property. One case such as ACLU of New Jersey v. Schundler (1999) appealed to have the a menorah (although a symbol of Hanukkah), a creche, and a Christmas tree at New Jersey City Hall removed. Although a site from ACLU.com states the government being used to promote religious beliefs is unconstitutional, it is mentioned the City Hall also had large plastic figures of Santa Claus and Frosty the Snowman, a red sled, and Kwanzaa symbols. With symbols of Christianized Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, and secular symbols (Santa Claus, Frosty the Snow man) all being allowed on the City Hall, the City Hall is not establishing a singular religious holiday customs, but all religious and secular symbols. So, why does the ACLU just go after mainly the Christmas symbols?[/quote]
Alright, I see. I already hear the atheists and the secularists being blamed by many Americans.

People who do such things are not true atheists or antitheists or humanists or secularists. They're just idiots. On the other side of the extreme scale you have the religious screaming OMG I IZ BEING PERSECUTED RESPECT MY BELIEFS.

I find it ironic that The US has religiously (Yes very religious!) based laws which prevent people from legally ending their lives when they're terminal, and there is no huge discussion, but when a Christmas tree is removed, that's a big deal. Oh boy is that important... Priorities, anyone...?

Deny terminal cancer patients the right to die with some dignity -> should be tolerated
Make healthcare choices for women which are no government business -> should be tolerated
Deny Gay people the right to mary -> should be tolerated
Naming a Christmas tree a holiday tree -> OMFG SATAN
Removing a Christmas tree -> OMFG BLASPHEMY DISRESPECT HOW DARE YOU, HELL IS WAITING.

Spot the irony? I do.

[TheLionPrince]

[quote="Woeler"]
Alright, I see. I already hear the atheists and the secularists being blamed by many Americans.

People who do such things are not true atheists or antitheists or humanists or secularists. They're just idiots. On the other side of the extreme scale you have the religious screaming OMG I IZ BEING PERSECUTED RESPECT MY BELIEFS.

I find it ironic that The US has religiously (Yes very religious!) based laws which prevent people from legally ending their lives when they're terminal, and there is no huge discussion, but when a Christmas tree is removed, that's a big deal. Oh boy is that important... Priorities, anyone...?

Deny terminal cancer patients the right to die with some dignity -> should be tolerated
Make healthcare choices for women which are no government business -> should be tolerated
Deny Gay people the right to mary -> should be tolerated
Naming a Christmas tree a holiday tree -> OMFG SATAN
Removing a Christmas tree -> OMFG BLASPHEMY DISRESPECT HOW DARE YOU, HELL IS WAITING.

Spot the irony? I do.[/quote]

Okay, I see the "irony". Well, my problem with euthanasia is that 98% of American medical students swear on some form of the Hippocratic Oath. One of the oaths state it is their moral responsibilty for medical doctors to care "for the good of my patients" and "I will give no deadly medicine to any one if asked". Euthanasia contradicts this oath.

[Carl]

So if someone is terminal and they are going to die slowly and painfully, it is "for the good of" that patient to be forced to suffer over an extended period of time before they die?

[TheLionPrince]

Keep in mind, those are not my words, but statements in the Hippocrath Oath. Those statements are swore by incoming physicians, and like any oath, they are required to abide it. And, it all depends if euthanasia should be considered a murder.

For me, straving someone to death by denying them food and water is cruel and inhumane. You're taking a people's life regardless of whether you want or not.

P.S. This is a Christmas topic. If you want to talk about euthanasia, then, revive the thread below. Try not to go off-topic.

[Woeler]

Gonna make a different topic for euthanasia, carry one with the Christmas "war"

[DGFone]

[quote="Woeler"]
I find it ironic that The US has religiously (Yes very religious!) based laws which prevent people from legally ending their lives when they're terminal, and there is no huge discussion, but when a Christmas tree is removed, that's a big deal. Oh boy is that important... Priorities, anyone...?

Deny terminal cancer patients the right to die with some dignity -> should be tolerated
Make healthcare choices for women which are no government business -> should be tolerated
Deny Gay people the right to mary -> should be tolerated
Naming a Christmas tree a holiday tree -> OMFG SATAN
Removing a Christmas tree -> OMFG BLASPHEMY DISRESPECT HOW DARE YOU, HELL IS WAITING.

Spot the irony? I do.[/quote]

Because the 3rd biggest nation in the world, having a population of 300 million people, and spanning Ocean coast to Ocean Coast, totally acts like the Bible Belt. Very mature.

[Carl]

[quote="DGFone"]
Because the 3rd biggest nation in the world, having a population of 300 million people, and spanning Ocean coast to Ocean Coast, totally acts like the Bible Belt. Very mature. [/quote]

Obviously not the entire nation acts that way, but if the majority didn't, we wouldn't have these issues. If the majority wasn't so gung-ho religious, no one would be claiming that there was a 'war' on Christmas.