Israel Under Attack?

[DGFone]

Land belongs to whoever claims it, history has nothing to do with it. I of course don't mean that Israelis need to leave or be blown up, just that they should give the land back to its rightful owners.

So all of America belongs to the Europeans because they claimed it, and the natives never bothered to do so? Can I then claim that I own Mars, and forbid anyone from going there without my permission? Can I claim that I own your home and kick you out?

[DGFone]

It's so easy to defend your homeland with arrows and axes when the other side has guns and cannons... they were being slaughtered if they didn't obey. They DID bother, they just failed.

I am not saying that the natives never bothered to defend their homelands. If you remember the Battle of the Little Bighorn and the Indian wars, they did defend their homes. With guns. Don't pull the "Natives with bows and arrows Avatar-esk romantic stuff. The natives knew they needed guns, and the GOT them.

What I said was that the natives never bothered to claim the land they lived on. Europeans arrived in the Americas and claimed them. By Banana's logic, Europeans own it now (today, its white Americans). The main point is that by not bothering to claim their land, using this logic, the Native Americans have no right to live hear.

And using that same logic, Israel also has all right to remain. Just because they use history to back up their claim to the land, it doesn't neglect the fact that many Israelis DO claim the land as their own.

[pitbullangel]

For those who do not believe in God, it is hard to explain why Israel is so attacked, and why the two groups fight so much. It all started with Issac and Ishmael, and Abraham trying help God out instead of trusting Him.. God promised Abraham that both would become great nations (Issac being starting the Israel people and Ishmael fathering the Arab peoples) but would fight until Jesus returns. There will be no peace between them until then. Even if you don't believe in God, history tells the same story, and history also shows that countries that stand against Israel start to fall apart and those that stand with Israel are much blessed. And it has nothing to do with Israel being "good" they were never "good" they doubted, they failed, they ultimately rejected Jesus, they did everything that humans do, however, God chose them, and it had nothing to do with how favorable they were. It had nothing to do with human rules and human thoughts. One day Israel will thrive again and be the people God meant for them to be, it is their land, and it will always be their land no matter who else tries to get it, they fought against God and lost it many times but His promise always remained that they would be brought back and be a nation again.

[Tora]

I'd just like to point a few things out. To be honest though this fighting hasn't purpose. The people of these lands refuse to listen and so they fight for all the wrong reasons.

The Pope blessed those who fought the spread of condoms in Africa.

It really bugs me that Christianity as a whole gets attack by things that this false figurehead named the Pope does.

Christianity or Judaism are no better than Islam. Not one bit.

For someone who has read the Qur'an and the Bible that statement is surprising. There is a big difference. You judge Christianity as a whole based upon the Catholic denomination. The Qur'an preaches KILL, KILL, KILL all day long. Show me verse for verse anywhere where Jesus said for Christians to kill.

[Carl]

The Qur'an preaches KILL, KILL, KILL all day long.

Actually, it doesn't. The Islamic people were peaceful with pretty much everyone until the British arrived in India and drove a spike between them and the Hindus. Or so I learned in several history classes.

[Tora]

The Qur'an preaches KILL, KILL, KILL all day long.

Actually, it doesn't. The Islamic people were peaceful with pretty much everyone until the British arrived in India and drove a spike between them and the Hindus. Or so I learned in several history classes.

You should read the Qur'an Muhammad is quite clear.

Sura 8:12 - "Cut off their heads, and cut off the tips of their fingers"
Sura 9:123 - "O you who have believed, fight those adjacent to you of the disbelievers and let them find in you harshness. And know that Allah is with the righteous."
Bukhari 9.84.57 - "Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him."

These are just a small number of verses that most definitely are not peaceful.

[Carl]

You should read the Qur'an Muhammad is quite clear.

Sura 8:12 - "Cut off their heads, and cut off the tips of their fingers"
Sura 9:123 - "O you who have believed, fight those adjacent to you of the disbelievers and let them find in you harshness. And know that Allah is with the righteous."
Bukhari 9.84.57 - "Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him."

These are just a small number of verses that most definitely are not peaceful.

As if the Bible doesn't have violent verses.

Exodus 32:27 "Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.'"

Just because there's violence in the book doesn't mean the people who follow the religion are all violent. I have met several Muslims in my life, all of whom were more peaceful than most Christians I've met.

[Tora]

As if the Bible doesn't have violent verses.

Exodus 32:27 "Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.'"

Just because there's violence in the book doesn't mean the people who follow the religion are all violent. I have met several Muslims in my life, all of whom were more peaceful than most Christians I've met.

You quote a verse from the time of Moses in which the Levites slaughtered those who would not repent. Those who openly defied God; who would rather worship idols than accept the God which had freed them. God exercised Judgement on them. For they refused not only to repent, but in their hearts they turned from him and were of nothing but evil. That is not to say that the Levites were home free. They became plagued. You know why today Christians don't live the verse today? Simple, Jesus came and taught mercy, forgiveness, and grace to the people. Jesus came and paid the price so we wouldn't have to. He taught us not to condemn people for we are not God, and if we condemn then we ourselves will be condemned.

[Carl]

You quote a verse from the time of Moses in which the Levites slaughtered those who would not repent. Those who openly defied God; who would rather worship idols than accept the God which had freed them. God exercised Judgement on them. For they refused not only to repent, but in their hearts they turned from him and were of nothing but evil. That is not to say that the Levites were home free. They became plagued. You know why today Christians don't live the verse today? Simple, Jesus came and taught mercy, forgiveness, and grace to the people. Jesus came and paid the price so we wouldn't have to. He taught us not to condemn people for we are not God, and if we condemn then we ourselves will be condemned.

The circumstances are irrelevant; there's other violent verses in there. Not to mention all the raping that was going on that no one batted an eye at. Just because those things are in the book doesn't mean all of the followers of the faith are violent or will do them, and that is the only point I was trying to make.

[Tora]

You quote a verse from the time of Moses in which the Levites slaughtered those who would not repent. Those who openly defied God; who would rather worship idols than accept the God which had freed them. God exercised Judgement on them. For they refused not only to repent, but in their hearts they turned from him and were of nothing but evil. That is not to say that the Levites were home free. They became plagued. You know why today Christians don't live the verse today? Simple, Jesus came and taught mercy, forgiveness, and grace to the people. Jesus came and paid the price so we wouldn't have to. He taught us not to condemn people for we are not God, and if we condemn then we ourselves will be condemned.

The circumstances are irrelevant; there's other violent verses in there. Not to mention all the raping that was going on that no one batted an eye at. Just because those things are in the book doesn't mean all of the followers of the faith are violent or will do them, and that is the only point I was trying to make.

No the point you tried to make is that Christianity is just as bad as Islam. Far from it. Christ tells no man to kill another. Christ tells no man to stone, to rape, to condemn, to judge. Muhammad preaches Violence. Christians follow Christ. The Muslims are to follow the teachings of Muhammad, and so they must or else their own religion states they should be killed. Show me where Christ says -Kill those who do not believe in me.- You won't find any. The closet thing you'll find is in a Parable in Luke 19 which is nothing more then Jesus illustrating that those without faith shall parish before the Lord. (Not trying to be offensive Julie if I come off that way.)

You try to explain it, which isn't valid because most people take religion literaly. Muslims will do tha same. Christianity took millions of lives so don't try to act like it is a wonderful thing. It is not. I don't care what your book means. I care what it says.

That makes no sense. What it says is what it means. Read everything and understand. A book has words. A person must understand the words to even read a book. What it says is what it means. Misunderstanding comes from all things. You can't read one verse and take it to heart. You have to read it all. You place the blame on Christianity when the verse in questions comes from the old testament which is before Christ came. Christians follow Christ not Moses. The deaths, the killings all of which you blame on Christianity as whole comes from the Catholic Church. Blame not the Religion but the Church who used his name in vain. That's also not to say everyone in the Catholic Church is a psychopathic murder.