For or against Gay Marriage

Do you support gay marriage?

Yes
28
68%
No
12
29%
Other (Please Specify)
1
2%
 
Total votes : 41

Re: For or against Gay Marriage

Postby Azdgari » October 26th, 2012, 12:22 am

[quote="TheRoguePrince"][quote="TheGunner18"]Unfortunately, as much as we try to knock sense into these deluded peoples' heads and as much as we bombard them with the truth and the morally correct decision, they're still going to lock themselves behind a mental barricade that they wouldn't dare be breached.[/quote]
Well gee, I wonder why they won't listen, you're talking so nice to them :roll:[/quote]
Haha, seriously. So many people preaching kindness and tolerance--while referring to the opposition as brainless, heartless brutes with no compassion, logic, morals, etc. Quality double standard.
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Re: For or against Gay Marriage

Postby Carl » October 26th, 2012, 4:08 am

[quote="Azdgari"][quote="TheRoguePrince"]
Well gee, I wonder why they won't listen, you're talking so nice to them :roll:[/quote]
Haha, seriously. So many people preaching kindness and tolerance--while referring to the opposition as brainless, heartless brutes with no compassion, logic, morals, etc. Quality double standard.[/quote]

I'm sorry, should I be nice to someone who says I'm immoral if I want to marry another woman? What people fail to realize is that straight people have this guarantee that whoever they fall in love with, they can get married to and they will get rights to make decisions regarding that person's health etc. For gay people those RIGHTS are DENIED automatically. And for bisexuals like myself, there is only a 50% chance we can marry the person we fall in love with and obtain said rights. That is discrimination, and I, for one, have been silent for too damn long. People are people. No one is automatically better than anyone else. So either give us the rights you have, or take them from yourselves. I'm not going to bother talking nice to people who won't respect rights I should not have to fight for.
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Re: For or against Gay Marriage

Postby Azdgari » October 26th, 2012, 4:17 am

I'm saying that you're fighting for tolerance with intolerance. The only person on this board who opposes gay marriage is LionPrince, who is perfectly civil and a good dude. How do you think he feels with the way you all have stereotyped him for his beliefs?
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Re: For or against Gay Marriage

Postby Carl » October 26th, 2012, 4:25 am

I apologize for being so hotheaded, but I have gotten quite frustrated with talking civilly with people like that, I have been doing it elsewhere and honestly I'm tired of the amount of prejudice out there. And actually, there are 12 people here opposed to gay marriage, and one of whom stated their opinion quite rudely several pages back.
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Re: For or against Gay Marriage

Postby Azdgari » October 26th, 2012, 4:29 am

Yikes. I just went back and read some of the stuff I missed. Yikes.
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Re: For or against Gay Marriage

Postby Tora » October 26th, 2012, 4:58 am

You know I understand both sides of the issue, but I think that we as a nation need to be more tolerant. If the reason we are against it is because of religion than we need to exam our religion carefully. While I see why Christians do not like it; I also see that they should not be the ones to limit free will. If we truly are in faith of God we must realize that it is not our place to judge a person for the sins they commit. Nor is it our right to prevent them from making their own choices. We may not like the choices they make, but that doesn't mean that we have the right to deny them that choice.

I am a Christian and I follow the teachings of Christ more than the Old Testament. While I believe the Old Testament is important I think we need to learn from the teachings of Christ. As long as we as Christians fight the battle God will not interfere. It is when we as Christians realize that God wants to fight our battles for us that nothing can stand against us. Now do I support Gay marriage? No. Am I against it? No. When I voted "No" for supporting Gay Marriage I did not mean I was against it. I only meant that I would not be someone to put my name to endorse it. While I believe that everyone has the right to do what they want reasonably that does not mean I can back their beliefs.

No I am not intolerant, and I think all people should be happy. I do not think that in the end that same sex marriage will last very long anyway. I think they should have the right to do so though. If it lasts than it lasts. I do however think that even if a man is Sinning he still can be saved. No man but Christ is sinless. We have all committed sin, and in no doubt will commit some sin later in life even as a Christian; but does that mean we will burn in hell? No. A Christian is a sinner that is saved by grace.

With all this being said I have to say that we do not need to have such a war over such an issue. Instead of fighting over such trivial things we, as a nation, need to think about the future of this country and of this world.
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Re: For or against Gay Marriage

Postby Kopalover » October 26th, 2012, 5:04 am

First off. Why do we, as humans, have the get all happy and excited when we are granted a right, but when a group of people want rights, we get all angry and upset. We are all the same group of people in the end. We all have the same ending, death, so why not let someone ve happy before their time is over?
If a Homosexual wants to marry their significant partner, then allow it. It's what they want to do with their lives and how it makes them happy! They're going to die too, don't let them die unhappy.

Remember when women couldn't vote, and men got angry for it when they protested? Nowadays, no one cares. In the future, we'll be saying the exact same thing, but with gay marriages.
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Re: For or against Gay Marriage

Postby TheBlackCatCrossing » October 26th, 2012, 5:55 am

[quote="Tora"]You know I understand both sides of the issue, but I think that we as a nation need to be more tolerant. If the reason we are against it is because of religion than we need to exam our religion carefully. While I see why Christians do not like it; I also see that they should not be the ones to limit free will. If we truly are in faith of God we must realize that it is not our place to judge a person for the sins they commit. Nor is it our right to prevent them from making their own choices. We may not like the choices they make, but that doesn't mean that we have the right to deny them that choice.

I am a Christian and I follow the teachings of Christ more than the Old Testament. While I believe the Old Testament is important I think we need to learn from the teachings of Christ. As long as we as Christians fight the battle God will not interfere. It is when we as Christians realize that God wants to fight our battles for us that nothing can stand against us. Now do I support Gay marriage? No. Am I against it? No. When I voted "No" for supporting Gay Marriage I did not mean I was against it. I only meant that I would not be someone to put my name to endorse it. While I believe that everyone has the right to do what they want reasonably that does not mean I can back their beliefs.

No I am not intolerant, and I think all people should be happy. I do not think that in the end that same sex marriage will last very long anyway. I think they should have the right to do so though. If it lasts than it lasts. I do however think that even if a man is Sinning he still can be saved. No man but Christ is sinless. We have all committed sin, and in no doubt will commit some sin later in life even as a Christian; but does that mean we will burn in hell? No. A Christian is a sinner that is saved by grace.

With all this being said I have to say that we do not need to have such a war over such an issue. Instead of fighting over such trivial things we, as a nation, need to think about the future of this country and of this world.[/quote]

Playing Devil's advocate here, Tora (No pun intended), but when you say that we need to think of the future of this country, this included social issues. There was a time when one's religion was a big issue, especially if you were President. This country was founded by WASPs. Do you remember how everyone went crazy because Kennedy was Catholic? Nowadays, we don't really give a [censored]. Well, unless you count the few that bring up Romney's Mormon beliefs.

So yeah, you guys: Log Cabin Republicans. Three headed oddity or hypocrites? (I am really curious!)
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Re: For or against Gay Marriage

Postby Woeler » October 26th, 2012, 9:39 am

This issue isn't that hard to solve. I as an atheist am often told that I can not possibly have any sense of absolute morality because I have no guidance. First of all: We don't want or need an absolute morality. We want a morality that is thought out, reasoned, discussed, argued and (no pun intended) based on actual intelligent design. In a sense of a non-absolute morality we can say that morality can correspond to the well-being and general happiness of a creature or creatures. In that way moral values can be seen as facts or something close to it.

Now lets look at the gay-marriage issue. A gay man will in fact be happier if gay marriage is legalized. It means the state recognizes his ''kind'' and has the will to do something for them. A gay man is no less than a heterosexual man. If you look at it from the gay man's perspective you'll see that the happiness and general well-being will improve for homosexual people.

Now lets look at the heterosexual standpoint. Will the well-being or the happiness of any heterosexual on earth decrease if this will be legalized? The simple answer is no. There is no possible way in which 2 males or 2 females being married will affect your life. Your well-being and happiness will stay the same.

In fact, any holy scripture is an invalid piece of modern morality. To find the bits in those scriptures that are actually acceptable in modern morality you'd have to cherry pick. Things like not believing in slavery anymore, equality of women, being kind to animals are all recent moral values. They have very little basis in biblical or quranic scripture. They are things that have developed over historical time through a combination of reasoning, sober discussion, argument, legal theory, political and moral philosophy. In those scriptures however there is stoning, killing, oppression of women and homosexuals and even ethnic cleansing. And many people will say ''well, we don't believe that anymore, we've grown out of that''. Well of course you've grown out of it! You've grown out of it because of secular, moral philosophy and rational discussion.

I'm sorry to say that the anti-gay marriage people are 99% building their opinions on biblical scriptures of ''traditional family values''(no such thing exists, but ok) and the traditional form of marriage (which is rather a bond between two people than a bond between a man and a women).

We've abandoned inequality to women, we've abandoned stoning for adultery, we've abandoned death for blasphemy and breaking the Sabbath. Why can't we abandon this in the same way? There is absolutely no person who can oppose gay marriage in a sense of ''good'' morality. I'm not talking about the people who are neutral on this issue. I'm just destroying the myth that opposing gay marriage is somehow ''moral''. Every human is equal, man or woman, black or white, straight or gay.

Same species, same rights.

On a side note: studies have shown that homosexual people are better at childrearing than heterosexual people
Last edited by Woeler on October 26th, 2012, 10:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: For or against Gay Marriage

Postby FlipMode » October 26th, 2012, 9:54 am

Oops misunderstood the thread title last time I posted here. I thought it was asking if gays should have the right to marry but I realise now it's only saying "Do you support it?" I don't mind if one says "I don't support it" as long as they don't say "You shouldn't have the right" which no one here has said as far as I can see.

I of course, support it. It would be strange not to since I am bi myself but I have friends IRL who don't support the right for homosexual marriage... All it means is they are neutral to it, they wouldn't exactly protest it or such but they respect my decision

[quote]I'm sorry, should I be nice to someone who says I'm immoral if I want to marry another woman? [/quote]

But none of the people who voted "no" said you, I, or anyone else was immoral. We are quick to call them immoral when really, let's be honest for a second here - we are just as immoral if not more so for condemning one who simply shares their views in a pretty respectful way.

Let's pause for a second here, the problem with this thread IMO is the question it asks in the OP is worded too differently to the thread title. Title: " For or against Gay Marriage" Question in OP: "Do you support gay marriage" now just because one says "No I don't support it" does not mean they are against it.
QED; the question in the OP should have been the same as the one in the title, and I reckon the results would have been quite different.
'Cause I never have met anyone, on here or IRL who fully opposed gay marriage rights; I met people who don't support it, wouldn't go round with picket fences in protestation of it, but never met anyone who said "No, you shouldn't have the right to marry, because gay marriage is wrong and you shouldn't be able to marry the same sex"
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