This worries me..

[Simba]

well, it doesn't really bother me. if the member doesn't feel the action was just or whatever, they can explain this and send it in via that anonymus staff evaluation thing Moka put up some time ago (which personally I like the idea of). and, as was said before, they can discuss it via PM with said staff member, or perhaps another staff member if they feel that would be better. as stated it may also misrepresent the situation, and sometimes that's not so obvious to everyone. so no, they may not be able to tell someone is lying or not. there's over a thousand members here, so not every member who happens to pop up around here will be familiar with what the staff would do.

the problem with discussing it in public I see as that it will likely lead to more drama. yeah, you can handle that afterwards, but it would be better to prevent it in the first place to avoid anyone getting in trouble. and if you really feel like talking about it with friends there's always messengers for that. it's not secretive, it's drama prevention. and less drama means a more pleasant community atmosphere. if there's always drama going on and tension between members and staff, other members aren't going to want to be on the site.

now getting punished for simply discussing it in a calm and reasonable manner I wouldn't understand. or simply informing your friends that you were punished for doing something. but being all "I just did this, it's not anything that major. it was so unfair" I would understand them getting like a warning for that. it's pretty rude. like whispering to a person's friends about them in the back for the room while the person in question is up front. and generally all it does is make other members not like the person who carried out the action, and possibly continue on telling their friends how they don't like them. sometimes, it may actually be unfair. but you should discuss it with the staff and get it sorted out, not complain to your friends. I'm not talking about anyone in general, just using an example. actually, I can't think of witnessing anything like this before, I'm usually out of drama.

and technically, websites kinda are dictatorships lol. well, usually more monarchy than dictatorship, but you get the picture. it's Moka's site, he can do what he wants with it since he's the one who's paid for it, designed it, and coded it. he set up rules and decided to enforce him as he chooses. what we are allowed to do on this site are privileges. if a member doesn't like how things are ran, all they have to do is go somewhere they like better. personally, I think we're allowed plenty of expression, and the rules are reasonable. granted, I haven't been around so much in a long while to know how things have been around here, but I don't see where the staff have been controlling and oppressive anywhere.

[TheIvanMuse]

@Snowy Public forums are not secretive,they're public,which is exactly why stuff like this has to be dealt with via PM.
@Simba I can only agree with most of the things you said,not because it's putting me in something like a good light,but because you're being very objective about this whole matter and that is beneficial for the discussion and for the solution of this problem,if it can even be called a problem.

[SnowyCheetah]

[quote="TheIvanMuse"]Public forums are not secretive,they're public,which is exactly why stuff like this has to be dealt with via PM.[/quote]

It does not have to be dealt with privately. It ought to be allowed to be discussed publicly, and if it develops into drama, silenced only then. I'm just a big advocate of freedom of speech and while we obviously cannot completely have that here, we ought to be trying to be as close as possible. This rule does the opposite.

This rule, obviously, is under the guise of making the staffs' jobs easier to do. While I won't go into whether or not there are underlying reasons we aren't being told about, I will say that, if I'm not mistaken, this change was made after the last time I looked at the USR, which was shortly after they were overhauled. Because of cases like this, I think a mass PM ought to be sent out to notify members that a change was made. Otherwise, it just makes it more difficult for the members to keep up with rules and to debate one if they object (Oh God, the members being able to debate something, MUST KEEP THE DEMOCRACY AWAY!!). In short, it's just making it more likely that some red tape will go up unexpectedly and someone's going to get burned because of it. Pardon my French, but how the hell is anyone supposed to stay in line when changes like this get made and not a lick of notification is given? Ignorance is bliss, until you step out of line. Secrecy is bliss, until someone calls you on it.

[TheRoguePrince]

Ok, I know that I have already advertised my defiance of control an what not, but once again I must say that this is rediculous. Snowy is being pretty intelligent here, this place more and more is getting to secretive for my liking, if you want to know why there is so much drama, look at all the secrets and differences people have. If we all want to live in peace, we have to keep secrets to the necessary minimum. I understand a certain amount of control is necessary, but this is just going too far. Everyday I sit behind my keyboard and wonder what people are thinking. This is an American based forum run by an American, not a freaking fascist state. I don't want to get myself into trouble, but think before you make people more angry. It is dangerous to hide things.

[Moka]

I agree with Simba, but I can see where you all are coming from.

The whole "MLK is a dictatorship" thing is really immature, though. Just saying.

As I said when the new rules were put into place, revisions were definitely going to be made in the coming weeks. This is one of those revisions (I bet there will be more) that will have to be made because they are new rules and they are not perfect. The rule in question was put into place to try to have members discuss such issues with staff, instead of bringing them up in the middle of discussions. I can see where it needs revision, or possibly removal, and I will discuss it with the other staff members.

[Annie]

In all honesty, I don't see what the problem is here.
I would hate to be notified of every little warning and 24hr banning that went on, it'd get so boring and I couldn't care less.

You guys all seem to talk on MSN and maybe facebook, so why discuss it here too? I think it's something most members wouldn't really care about and I'd rather talk about Simba and TLK stuffs.

[YFWE]

[quote="Annie"]In all honesty, I don't see what the problem is here.
I would hate to be notified of every little warning and 24hr banning that went on, it'd get so boring and I couldn't care less.

You guys all seem to talk on MSN and maybe facebook, so why discuss it here too? I think it's something most members wouldn't really care about and I'd rather talk about Simba and TLK stuffs.[/quote]

Fer sure.

What is this? People... taking a LION KING MESSAGE BOARD too seriously again? No. Way.

I'm not saying one side is right or wrong but jeezus... people on this site argue about some of the most trivial things. I'd hate to see how some people deal with actual real life problems. Nothing against any of y'all because I love y'all more than Oprah loves a $1.99 buffet, but chillaaaaax.

[TheIvanMuse]

Exactly what YFWE said,you guys are really making a big fuss over nothing. I seriously don't see what the problem is. When the rules were changed,you were informed,so if you didn't see that,that is more to your account rather than on ours. And what exactly is secretive about anything we do,would like to have reports of whatever it is that I do on the site. I don't think so. You need to relax a bit and look at issues from all perspectives,rather than going into arguments about something that isn't even a problem.
And Snow,about what you quoted me about before. Do you think peace would be preserved if everything was discussed publicly. It would all turn into a big bowl of drama and arguments that would only lead to more drama and argument in the doing. And once again,you're taking this whole thing way too personally without looking at the whole picture. If someone is having problems with a mod's decision,why discuss it in the chatroom or topic of the site itself to pretty much make the staff member look bad in doing so. You are free to discuss this wherever you want,facebook,MSN,take your pick,but doing so on a site where the individual is a staff member is only making him look bad and causing more drama at the end. So I hope you do see that actually privately (via PM) discussing this with the staff member the person had trouble with is the best option you can choose.

[MalibuTrashDog]

Gahh there are usually spaces after a comma usage.

[SnowyCheetah]

I think you guys are failing to realize that the only place someone can really discuss an infraction-provoked staff action is in the chatroom. Posting such a thing in a new thread in the Den would be grounds for locking or more, leaving the chatroom, or someone's den (if that person wishes to allow such discussions). I think the rule needs to be removed, since the issue at hand is already covered by the other rules (which make it unacceptable to discuss rule infractions outside people's dens or chatroom) and if someone raises drama over it, only then is it necessary to silence them.

Also... Moka, this is not immature. It's a legitimate concern and I think you would do quite well to sufficiently address the concerns of the members which make up your forum or you'll soon be left with none.