For those who believe in the "Scar Is Nala's Father" Theory

[SlayerOfLight]

Well let's put it this way, there's still no concrete evidence that proves Nuka to be Scar's son. Nuka may look like Scar, but that doesn't mean he's his son though. Otherwise Nuka would be Simba's cousin, which is extremely unlikely.

[Regulus]

[quote="Nicholas"]Otherwise Nuka would be Simba's cousin, which is extremely unlikely.[/quote]

...why is that unlikely?

[SlayerOfLight]

[quote="Regulus"][quote="Nicholas"]Otherwise Nuka would be Simba's cousin, which is extremely unlikely.[/quote]

...why is that unlikely?[/quote]

Because I dont think the creators intended Nuka and/or Vitani to be Simba's cousins. And never did Simba mention Nuka as his cousin and vice versa.

[Carl]

I just now saw this topic, and I have to say about this from the first page:

[quote="TheLionPrince"]^Again, another interesting piece of reliable information, I must say.

I would also say that Scar can't be Nala's father because if he were, Nala's pelt fur would have been darker, but it isn't. Allow me to explain.

In The Lion King movie universe, cubs seem to inherit their pelt fur from their given father. Simba obviously received his "brownish gold" fur from Mufasa, and Kovu had to have received his pelt fur from his father, as Zira has apricot-colored fur. However, with Kiara, it's a different take as her fur is lighter tone of Simba's fur, but her fur looks closer to Smba's than Nala's. So, in conclusion, it seems male lions have the dominant genetic trait in deciding the pelt fur of their colors.

I apologize if I over-analyzed this, but I just wanted to make a point.[/quote]

If color is inherited solely from their fathers, then how does that explain the fact that Scar and Mufasa are different colors? They are brothers, meaning they had the same dad, and so... well obviously both of them didn't inherit his colors. Besides, as Regulus pointed out back then, genetics is more complicated than that.

Based on what's official, originally Scar or Mufasa would have been Nala's father, but to erase the incest issue, they obscured her lineage, saying neither was her father, and hoped no one would notice her dad was left out. So best bet is that it was a rogue who fathered her.

Also, as far as the other cubs, Kovu and Vitani are much too small to have been born before Scar's death, so I doubt that Scar actually "chose" Kovu to be anything.

And considering as it's apparent that both of them and Nuka are Zira's cubs, the fact that she was made to be a follower only and not Scar's mate says to me that none of her brood are his.

Personally, I think Scar is the father of no one.

BUT, I have nothing against well written fan theories or fics in which these things are not the case... it's called AU people. If you don't think it's canon, call it AU and either ignore it or take it for what it is, a fan theory.

[TheLionPrince]

[quote="Regulus"][quote="Nicholas"]Otherwise Nuka would be Simba's cousin, which is extremely unlikely.[/quote]

...why is that unlikely?[/quote]

If I can barge into the conversation, it's unlikely and flat-out denied by Darrell Rooney who, in my attachment in my last post, explained that in the final version, Zira is a follower, but not a mate of Scar as originally intended.

[quote="DGFone"][quote="TheLionPrince"]
You're entitled to believe what you want, but what you may have heard is just a fan theory. There's little to nothing that indicates Zira is a step mother of Nuka. When Nuka died, Zira mourns over him even stating "Oh, Scar, watch over my poor Nuka!" The "my" in that line strongly indicates Nuka is her son by blood.[/quote]

But that could also mean that Nuka is not necessarily Zira's son, but that she finally found that deep emotional bond for him that allowed her to finally accept him as one of her own. While it does imply that Nuka is her son, it doesn't prove so.[/quote]

While it is indeed fun to speculate about certain aspects of the film, the line is as simply straightforward as a 180 degree angle. Nuka uses the term, "Mother", towards Zira likewise with Vitani that clearly state Zira is his mother. Do you think Simba saying "Dad" to Mufasa doesn't really prove Mufasa is Simba's father?

In the film, Zira does seem to accept Nuka as one of her own to trust his protection of her ticket to her "glorious return to power". While he does fail that task, Zira still asks of him to complete other tasks such as starting a wildfire and keep watch on Kovu's fulfillment of his mission. If Zira didn't accept Nuka as her own, why does she keep giving tasks to him when there are countless competent Outsider lionesses who can take his place even after failing his first task seen on film? Yes, Zira needed the help she can get from him, but perhaps she sees Nuka as more of an asset than a liability.

Zira always accepted Nuka as one of her own, and while she doesn't act emotionally over it until his death, there is hidden context that prove otherwise in a non-verbal portrayal.

[quote="Julie Skywalker"]I just now saw this topic, and I have to say about this from the first page:

[quote="TheLionPrince"]^Again, another interesting piece of reliable information, I must say.

I would also say that Scar can't be Nala's father because if he were, Nala's pelt fur would have been darker, but it isn't. Allow me to explain.

In The Lion King movie universe, cubs seem to inherit their pelt fur from their given father. Simba obviously received his "brownish gold" fur from Mufasa, and Kovu had to have received his pelt fur from his father, as Zira has apricot-colored fur. However, with Kiara, it's a different take as her fur is lighter tone of Simba's fur, but her fur looks closer to Smba's than Nala's. So, in conclusion, it seems male lions have the dominant genetic trait in deciding the pelt fur of their colors.

I apologize if I over-analyzed this, but I just wanted to make a point.[/quote]

If color is inherited solely from their fathers, then how does that explain the fact that Scar and Mufasa are different colors? They are brothers, meaning they had the same dad, and so... well obviously both of them didn't inherit his colors. Besides, as Regulus pointed out back then, genetics is more complicated than that.[/quote]

That's one of the flaws that disprove my theory I found out sometime after Regulus posted that genetics is more complicated. Another one is that Nala may have inherited her creamy pelt fur from her mother.

[Regulus]

[quote="TheLionPrince"][quote="Regulus"][quote="Nicholas"]Otherwise Nuka would be Simba's cousin, which is extremely unlikely.[/quote]

...why is that unlikely?[/quote]

If I can barge into the conversation, it's unlikely and flat-out denied by Darrell Rooney who, in my attachment in my last post, explained that in the final version, Zira is a follower, but not a mate of Scar as originally intended. [/quote]

In your attachment, he states that Zira and Scar's relationship is obscured, not denied. The two a completely different.

We could sit here and interpret what the writers intended all day, but when it comes right down to it, they were only trying to cover up the whole incest issue by doing that. That's why we have these sorts of discussions; because they did a horrible job at covering it up.

The fact of the matter is, Zira was obsessively attracted to the idea of continuing Scar's heritage. So, as adults who know how the world works, are we seriously expected to believe that they didn't have a little something something (hint) going on between them?

Nuka being the son of Zira and Scar just makes sense logically. Scar wanted a heir of his own, we know that from TLKoB. Scar, being the narcissistic lion he was, found Zira and fathered Nuka but denied him the right to the throne, because he was not worthy. As a result, Zira mated with another lion to continue Scar's legacy, thus producing Vitani and Kovu, and Nuka followed his mother as a helpless cub feeling rejected.

Nuka being Scar's son also adds a reason for Simba to exile the Outlanders. This is just speculation, but instead of Zira killing Kopa, it is entirely possible that Zira could have attacked Simba. She could have been trying to protect Scar's cub from the big bad murder, Simba. Either that, or Simba just didn't want to deal with Scar's heir. If there wasn't a direct relationship, it wouldn't have been an issue.

It's obscured, but it's never denied.

[quote="Julie Skywalker"]If color is inherited solely from their fathers, then how does that explain the fact that Scar and Mufasa are different colors? They are brothers, meaning they had the same dad, and so... well obviously both of them didn't inherit his colors. Besides, as Regulus pointed out back then, genetics is more complicated than that.[/quote]

The general consensus is that Uru and Ahadi look something like this:



There's many variations, of course, but from what I've seen, Scar's pelt color is inherited from Uru, and Mufasa's is inherited from Ahadi.

[Carl]

[quote="Regulus"]The general consensus is that Uru and Ahadi look something like this:



There's many variations, of course, but from what I've seen, Scar's pelt color is inherited from Uru, and Mufasa's is inherited from Ahadi.[/quote]

I am aware that that is the general consensus.
Which parent is which color is irrelevant on this matter, however, because my point was just that they obviously didn't inherit only their father's color since Mufasa and Scar are the sons of the same lion and are both different colors.

[Regulus]

When you said that, I had to wonder for a minute how Scar and Mufasa did get to be different colors, after all. Then I remembered Uru and Ahadi's colors.

It's still weird, though, because a lot of times, fur color sorta blends. More often than not, yellow lion + brown lion = yellowish-brown lion, because the genetics are for the pigment. When you mix the genes, you're effectively mixing pigments, too--thus producing a result similar in appearance to mixed paint. But then there's also patterns of coloration and such, and the way some genes can be turned on or off by other genes...

Like I said, it's complicated. Simplifying it to say that the fur color comes from the male is quite ridiculous, to say the least. xD

[DGFone]

[quote="Regulus"]
It's still weird, though, because a lot of times, fur color sorta blends. More often than not, yellow lion + brown lion = yellowish-brown lion, because the genetics are for the pigment. When you mix the genes, you're effectively mixing pigments, too--thus producing a result similar in appearance to mixed paint. But then there's also patterns of coloration and such, and the way some genes can be turned on or off by other genes...[/quote]

That's not really how genes work, and is one of the most common misconceptions about offspring traits. Genes can be dominant or dormant, but they can't really be "mixed". That's why in real life, a cub of a yellow and a brown lion pair will always either be yellow or brown (keep in mind that in RL, differences in fur color vary only slightly). Sometimes in very rare cases they will be a different color altogether - ending up with only recessive genes and no dominant color genes - this is how you get white lions. I am not sure about what happens if two colors are both dominant, and how that's sorted out, but they don't mix.

Mixing happens as evolution - the color gene gets messed up in a natural process that changes the color. A lot like saving the color on a USB, and over time, a bit gets broken or flipped, thus changing the "code".

Hope this helps with how fur color is inherited. You can get one or the other, but mixing is pure fiction.

[Regulus]

This is going so far off topic. xD

[quote="DGFone"]That's not really how genes work, and is one of the most common misconceptions about offspring traits. Genes can be dominant or dormant, but they can't really be "mixed". That's why in real life, a cub of a yellow and a brown lion pair will always either be yellow or brown (keep in mind that in RL, differences in fur color vary only slightly). Sometimes in very rare cases they will be a different color altogether - ending up with only recessive genes and no dominant color genes - this is how you get white lions. I am not sure about what happens if two colors are both dominant, and how that's sorted out, but they don't mix.

Mixing happens as evolution - the color gene gets messed up in a natural process that changes the color. A lot like saving the color on a USB, and over time, a bit gets broken or flipped, thus changing the "code".

Hope this helps with how fur color is inherited. You can get one or the other, but mixing is pure fiction.[/quote]

You're wrong, and that's way oversimplified. There isn't one specific gene for fur color that's mixed and matched; there are many genes for pigments, which can interact in very weird (but often predictable) ways.

The easiest comparison to make is with human skin color, which is understood to a much greater extent. Notice how there's no one specific "white people gene" or "black people gene." Skin color is a result of the amount and type of melanin production, which can vary from high to low concentrations. A child could have a skin color of anywhere in-between its parents, depending on which genes the child receives that determine melanin production. There isn't just one of them, there are several.

In computer terms, it's not one bit of data that's a zero or a one (yellow or brown). It's more like a combination of several bits, which can be decoded to produce values anywhere from zero to 255 (very yellow to very brown).