Scar and the lionesses

Re: Scar and the lionesses

Postby DGFone » March 13th, 2013, 6:18 pm

According to TLKoB, Scar didn't even think of having any cubs while he was king. For that matter, that does fit his personality - as king, he wanted everything to be centered around him. Not his son, but him. It was only after he realized that the kingdom was failing, and therefore no one liked him, that he started looking for a way to regain the pride's trust.

And with Zazu's "help", he realized that he needed to do to fix all the problems was to get a queen, have cubs and, according to him: "Immortality will be mine!" What a nuthead.

Which of course meant that he tried to get his with with Nala, causing her to flee. And Shadowlands was not included in the movie for spoiler reasons and not to "protect the kiddies". After all, the Broadway show went with All of this stuff, and young kids watch that too.
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Re: Scar and the lionesses

Postby TheLionPrince » March 13th, 2013, 9:37 pm

Don't Nuka, Vitani, and Kovu fall into the category of new cubs being born during Scar's reign?

I agree with TheBlackCatCrossing's theories, Regulus's, and ClearGreenWater to an extent. Here are my additional plausible reasons:

1. Scar's cub(s) would have created character(s) too many for the story. Think in terms of an adaptation of the story of the Exodus (which TLK borrows from), what did Pharoah's son do that was crucial to the story? Not a whole lot, when you think about it from Moses's point of view. Unless the character(s) is killed in the film, it would have created "sequel bait" for the next film if Simba decides to banish the character causing the character to desire to have the throne returned back onto Scar's lineage. The filmmakers had no intention of making a sequel due to Pocahontas being seen as the more successful film of the two.

2. At the beginning of the film, Scar states, "As far as brains go, I got the lion's share, but when it comes to brutal strength, I'm afraid I'm at the shallow end of the gene pool." While it's given as the reason for Scar to not challenge Mufasa, I can interpret the line for the reason for him not to have cubs. Since Scar knows he is weak genetically, I'm pretty he wouldn't want to pass that trait onto his child(ren) especially know that you have battle with other lions in order to retain his power. However, the shared genetic traits of his mate could have made the cub stronger than him, but genetic traits are quite complex to determine the physical outcome of a descendant.

3. Scar could have had a rough childhood, and felt no one really loved him. Scar in the Broadway musical states this, but like BCC states, it should be treated as an alternate universe, not as a canon work. Well, if Scar felt no one really loved him, it hardened his heart to not love anyone in return as if he was some sort of a psychopath. This also ties in to the "antisocial personality disorder", which we see in some ways in the film as Scar not being around with the pride, and a blatant disregard for the rules of the kingdom.

[quote="DGFone"]
Which of course meant that he tried to get his with with Nala, causing her to flee. And Shadowlands was not included in the movie for spoiler reasons and not to "protect the kiddies". After all, the Broadway show went with All of this stuff, and young kids watch that too.[/quote]

Um, I'm pretty sure Scar's seduction of Nala was not included in the movie to "protect the kiddies" because co-director Roger Allers confirms below that the filmmakers felt the scene was overall creepy and another reason was because they felt it dragged on too long.

[youtube]I0WATOVmLtQ[/youtube]

I'm not sure if you're referring to "Shadowland" to the actual song or just the deleted scene. However, I will stand partially corrected if you show/tell me credible proof that the song/scene was written out for spoiler reasons. If it's in the audio commentary, I'll pick up on it when I listen to it again.

[quote="Remorazz"]Well, we don't know he didn't have cubs, it's just that they never appeared in the first movie. Nuka and Vitani have the potential of being his cubs, but we don't really know for sure. I don't think that none of the females 'liking' him would be a strong possibility, as the lions exiled to the Outlands supported Scar.[/quote]

[spoiler]Image

It's been cleared up a long time ago so we can know for a fact that Nuka and Vitani are not his descendants.[/spoiler]
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Re: Scar and the lionesses

Postby DGFone » March 14th, 2013, 12:57 am

Well, that scene was dropped for several reasons. Considering other things they left in (Nazi hyenas, Hitler Scar, that "look" Nala gives in CYFTLT), I think the creepy parts of the scene were only a small reason why it was removed. The fact that they couldn't condense it enough, I think, easily 90% of the reason why they left it out.

But back to Scar and the lionesses: I think we can all agree that it's Scar's first attempt to have cubs with Nala that drover her away, and therefore directly lead to his Downfall. By the time Nala left and came back with Simba, even if Scar did manage to get a lioness to accept him, such as Zira, there is no way that there was enough time for the cubs to be born by the time Simba came back.

To put it simply, even if Scar did get cubs, he didn't live long enough to see them. At best, Nuka might be his direct descendant, but Nuka would have never gotten the chance to see Scar alive. As for Kovu and Vitani - both the same age roughly as Kiara - there was no way that they are Scar's offspring. They are far too young.
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Re: Scar and the lionesses

Postby Commodus » April 14th, 2013, 1:49 pm

I think it was fear. Think about it, Scar acknowledges that he is not a strong Lion.
Now consider the Lionesses, they go out and hunt, they're strong and they're unified. Scar was an outsider at the start of the movie and remained one even as King.
Let's say he tried to 'force himself' on one of the females - I think it's really debatable that he would even be able to escape with his life.

They already disliked him, if he did something so stupid and offensive I don't think he would have lived very long.
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Re: Scar and the lionesses

Postby simbafan83 » May 1st, 2013, 10:34 pm

we all know that scar apparently wasnt very smart
he made poor choices
the lionesses did not liked him
and as someone pointed out, scar ,in a deleted scene, tried to make nala scar's queen
which we all know that plan failed
as soon as simba was reunited with nala
simba fought scar
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Re: Scar and the lionesses

Postby LionessJhr13 » July 24th, 2013, 9:11 am

[quote="cleargreenwater"]I don't think Scar would have WANTED cubs. If he ever did sire cubs he would resent them, for they would replace Mufasa as his competition--and inevitably win.

I see a lot of really great fan-works that employ the device of children of Scar as bids to consolidate and solidify his power--and psychological games ARE ever Scar's strong suit--but it just never felt right to me, I just don't see Scar ever being hands-on in his methods.[/quote]
(I cut out the parts of this quote that were irrelevant.)
In a deleted scene from TLK this theroy is contradicted. Scar states in this deleted scene (not just a broadway scene): "A queen! She'll rule by my side, we'll have cubs, little Scar's running all over the place; my heirs. My descents! My lineage, I will be IMORTAL!" ... So Scar certainly sounds enthusiastic about having a queen and cubs there.
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Re: Scar and the lionesses

Postby cleargreenwater » July 26th, 2013, 12:12 am

[quote="LionessJhr13"][quote="cleargreenwater"]I don't think Scar would have WANTED cubs. If he ever did sire cubs he would resent them, for they would replace Mufasa as his competition--and inevitably win.

I see a lot of really great fan-works that employ the device of children of Scar as bids to consolidate and solidify his power--and psychological games ARE ever Scar's strong suit--but it just never felt right to me, I just don't see Scar ever being hands-on in his methods.[/quote]
(I cut out the parts of this quote that were irrelevant.)
In a deleted scene from TLK this theroy is contradicted. Scar states in this deleted scene (not just a broadway scene): "A queen! She'll rule by my side, we'll have cubs, little Scar's running all over the place; my heirs. My descents! My lineage, I will be IMORTAL!" ... So Scar certainly sounds enthusiastic about having a queen and cubs there.[/quote]

He wants "little Scars" though, not children. Had he actually had any, he would have soured on them the second they started doing anything but mimicking his every belief and wish into posterity just as he forbid his kingdom to speak. And depending on how suspicious/paranoid a person envisions him becoming, I can easily see Scar deciding any child of his is a traitor the second they're more than a talking head/puppet in even the smallest way. That's why that cut scene just never jelled with me, it always seemed a bit out of character thing for him to think of realistically.

And we weren't exactly discussing propositioning a young queen as Disney presented it in the deleted segment, either, more like politely alluding to forced breeding/rape and cub slaughter as it happens using real lions as a template. I can't see Scar ever being hands-on with his dirty work enough to, say, kill a cub himself when he wouldn't even kill Simba on his own. (Sometimes the cut/skimmed parts are the context.)


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Re: Scar and the lionesses

Postby DGFone » July 26th, 2013, 12:42 am

It's even implied in the musical that Scar didn't even think of having cubs until his reasoning told him that if he wants to get some major Plus Points in the PR department, then he should get a queen...

"...And that means I'll have cubs! Immortality will be mine!"

I think we can all agree that Scar did not think about having children, but only how to benefit himself even more.
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Re: Scar and the lionesses

Postby Titanics Captain » July 31st, 2013, 7:45 pm

Although in fact the males do kills the cubs, this is a cartoon.
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Re: Scar and the lionesses

Postby Meskhenet » August 1st, 2013, 3:28 am

I don't think he would want to mate with the lionesses because he was so focused on being the king. Although in the musical he did note that in order to gain "immortality" he would need to make a host of little scars. *obviously* :P In that case he chose Nala but let's just say he got cruelly rejected. :ha: :mhm: But I don't think anyone besides Nala really suited him as "acceptable". And even if he wasn't picky he still won't be able to repopulate because he is the most hated and despised pride member king or not. And on top of that he doesn't look healthy enough to help copulate. If you compare him to Mufasa he looks like a skinny little twig. In fact, in the second scene "Scar" Scar said so himself that he was at the shallow end of the gene pool, which I'm assuming he doesn't have any desirable traits to pass on to his potential descendants if he were to father any. So if he wanted any cubs his best chance would be Zira since she is crazily faithful and loyal to him to the point it's pathetic. :yuck: :roll:
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