Something I've Never Really Understood

[Regulus]

Obviously, lions are carnivores. They eat other animals.

In TLK, the writers did not hide this fact. Several allusions to hunting are made throughout the movie.

However, the entire idea is thrown off with the concept of the 'circle of life.' Basically, Mufasa explains that the lions must respect all the animals, even though (or perhaps because) they feed on them.

If I am interpreting this correctly, it means that the lions hunt for food, but do not kill for pleasure. That's the way most people seem to interpret it, at least. It does make sense, as that is essentially how we live today, as humans.

But, let's consider something. In TLK, the entire animal kingdom (pun unintended) acts a society. All the creatures go to Pride Rock to celebrate the birth of Simba, and later Fluffy/Kopa or Kiara.

In fact, many of the main characters aren't even lions, and what's even more amusing, is that they can communicate with one another.

So, basically, there's a bit of a flaw with this. If Kiara can talk to Timon and Pumbaa, why can't she talk to the herd of impala that she was hunting? Why were the wildebeest represented as 'just a stampede' instead of an actual living, breathing group of wildebeest?

I know, I'm looking too far into this. More than likely, it's just a sort of plothole.

But doesn't anyone else think it's really weird how this entire system works? The lions are the kings of a fully functioning society. On the screen, they get along fine with all the other animals. Yet, when the king's stomach growls, the animals suddenly become nothing more than props in the background.

Obviously, this is to avoid the awkward conversations that would ensue, but I have to wonder: are there any sort of fan theories or something that would explain this? What really happens when Mufasa gets hungry?

[DGFone]

Look at people: When you come down to the individual level, you get unique people who are all their own individuals.

Then go to New York, and all you get is a mosh pit of humans. Explode a bomb next to them, and you will get "just a stampede" of people as well.

The way I see it is that you really are looking too far into it: All the animals in The Lion King are unique, just that it's too unreasonable to look at each one and say "how would they react?".

Just look at the gopher: a random rodent clearly was also able to talk, and provide Zazu information. It's not that some animals in The Lion King can talk like humans and others can't. It's just that you really only need to show them doing so only a fraction of the time.

[Ninaroja]

That's something that has always sort of bothered me a bit. In the "He is Not One of Us" part of TLK2 the animals seem so conscious yet when it comes to trampling Mufasa they seem like mere objects...

[TheLionPrince]

Well, I did wonder a few months back why didn't the wildebeest in the stampede stop when they clearly see the king's son in front of them.

[quote="Regulus"]So, basically, there's a bit of a flaw with this. If Kiara can talk to Timon and Pumbaa, why can't she talk to the herd of impala that she was hunting? Why were the wildebeest represented as 'just a stampede' instead of an actual living, breathing group of wildebeest?

I know, I'm looking too far into this. More than likely, it's just a sort of plothole.[/quote]

I don't see this as a plot hole. Nothing given in the storyline is being contradicted. All the animals are implied to talk and sing as seen in "I Just Can't Wait to be King" sequence, and Simba was seen talking to a hippo in that scene. I really can't see why Kiara wants to talk with the impala since she is trying to kill one of them for food. I would imagine the conversation going like this:

[quote]
Kiara: *to the impalas* "Hey, I'm on my first solo hunt! Which of you wants to die?
Impala: "Well, I know my place in the Circle of Life!"

*Drops dead; Kiara grabs it by the neck killing the impala*[/quote]

It wouldn't look right, and based on my scenario, it'll be comical and utterly cheesy in an otherwise dramatic movie. Those animals can talk, but their personalities aren't explored to show us this. Plus, in those situations such as the fire outbreak and the wildebeest stampede, there was no time to talk: the wildebeest were being startled and chased by the hyenas, and in the fire outbreak, the impala herd weren't really aware of Kiara's presence (to my knowledge), and when they smelled the fire, they were trying to avoid being burned.

I do see the point you're making, and it's an interesting one to bring up. However, I don't see it as a plot hole.

[cleargreenwater]

Regulus, I still remember your Zed story because it touched on the same idea, this is a real sticking point huh?

[quote="DGFone"]Look at people: When you come down to the individual level, you get unique people who are all their own individuals.

Then go to New York, and all you get is a mosh pit of humans. Explode a bomb next to them, and you will get "just a stampede" of people as well.

The way I see it is that you really are looking too far into it: All the animals in The Lion King are unique, just that it's too unreasonable to look at each one and say "how would they react?".[/quote]

That is a great point, and I think you're on to it.

That and if I was hunting I wouldn't want to talk to it, because then it would cross a line, like eating a beef steer versus slaughtering a pet cow. Finding your place in the circle of life to the animals probably also included some form of acknowledging and accepting those lines. In addition to hunting for sport, I think one of the things meant to make the hyenas so heinous is that they messed with their prey before killing it, crossing that line of respect.

In all the subcanon, various animals do all talk to Simba, but they usually have business with him that they're bringing to his attention. I venture the very tentative theory that the animals that are known by name are designated spokespeople of a sort, so that there isn't more interacting than there needs to be.

[Regulus]

Zed wasn't my story.

There's a reason why I put this in the 'beyond the lion king' section: because this is more related to what the other fan theories are. It's just kinda ignored in the movies.

Now that I think about it, is it possible that there wasn't any food in the Pridelands during Scar's reign because the wildebeest were forced into exile for being idiots?

[DGFone]

Oy, Zed was mine.

And now that you mention it, that story I think does provide a good approximation of how the various animals interact in the Lion King: for the most part, they act as though they would to a human, as in, somewhat mindless beasts. But when you actually come down and talk to them, that's when you start getting the individual characteristics of each member.

And as for Kiara's hunting: If I were a antelope: Even if I accepted the fact that living in a very nice place would mean that I might get eaten, I would still run if I heard a lion near by.

[cleargreenwater]

[quote="DGFone"]Oy, Zed was mine. [/quote]

Haha, oops

Although I'm kind of relieved that as obsessive as us fans can get, no one person is truly *that* hung up on the metaphysics of prey/sacrifice dynamics

FWIW, it's something that I remember the story still? *cheese*