Massive School Shooting at an Elementary School

[Regulus]

What I would love the most, though, is to not have to point a gun at a person at all.

Which means, if you have to do it, you will hesitate, at least a little bit. If the other person is pointing a gun at you as well, and it's a life-or-death situation, as you seem to think every burglary is, hesitation is not acceptable.

You need to shoot first in a gunfight.

If you have rubber bullets, you know you're probably not going to kill the guy, so you won't hesitate as much. That could, potentially, save your life.

And, before you say that non-lethal weapons won't stop someone with a gun, take a look at this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_bullet

[Rubber bullets] are expected to produce contusions, abrasions, and hematomas.[6] However, they may cause bone fractures, injuries to internal organs, or death. In a study of 90 patients in Northern Ireland, one died, 17 suffered permanent disabilities or deformities and 41 required hospital treatment after being fired upon with rubber bullets.[7]

It'll knock a person down easily, and can still be lethal depending on where you hit them.

[DGFone]

I'll tell you the very simple reason why less people die in the Netherlands: Because it's the Netherlands, full of Dutch people.

Look, I know what I am about to say is very politically incorrect, very cynical, but in the end, also very true. However, I will put it in a spoiler because I'm afraid that people these days might not accept the answer, because it goes quite against a lot of social movements of the past 50 or so years. What is the main cause of crime?

(And I strongly urge to you consider if you want to open the spoiler or not. I'm not breaking the rules here, but what it says is very extreme.)

Inequality.

And I know that you know that it's true, otherwise you wouldn't tell everyone you can to vote for a political party that tries very hard to ban not guns, but foreigners. When people of different cultures meet, you get trade and the expansion of ideas. You also get war, and the smaller cousin of war is crime.

The difference between the Netherlands and the US is that we are a country of immigrants, while the Dutch are all natives. It's only logical that the US will have more crime, guns or no guns. And considering that crime in the Netherlands is closely tied to immigration, you know what I just said is true.

If you read what was in the spoiler, I hope you have the courage to understand that I am not saying this to get a reaction or to troll you guys, but because it's simply a fact of life.

Edit: I guess I should mention it before any of you guys freak out: I don't like what I said here, and I do wish that it were different. But I cannot change the fact that in the end, what's inside the spoiler. I hate it just as much as you guys do, I just feel like this fact needs to be realized by society more.

[Regulus]

Unbelievable.

Spoiler: show

That is not only incredibly offensive, but astonishingly ignorant as well.

[DGFone]

Unbelievable.
That is not only incredibly offensive, but astonishingly ignorant as well.

Yes it's offensive, but it doesn't make it true. It's cynical as [censored], I'll give you that.

[TheLionPrince]

Regulus: Epic response is epic.

DGFone: That was bad! Let's get back to facts. Please don't get this topic locked.

Woeler: What if I told you the Netherlands has worse violent crime than the US. And in terms of the top ten, the US is not on the list.

[DGFone]

Regulus: Epic response is epic.

DGFone: That was bad! Let's get back to facts. Please don't get this topic locked.

Woeler: What if I told you the Netherlands has worse violent crime than the US. And in terms of the top ten, the US is not on the list.

Look, I know you guys are probably hating me, and I agree with you: It's BAD. But you guys need to learn that it's also true. I'm not saying that I want it to be true, but that that's where the data points to. And seeing as I want to become a future scientist, I need to be flexible enough to admit when the evidence points at one place or another, no matter how much I hate it.

[Regulus]

But it isn't true.

[DGFone]

But it isn't true.

It's true. That's a very sad fact of life.

Edit: So a member got very mad at what I said, as is expected, so I changed the wording. But I want you guys to see exactly that: I changed the wording only, and not the meaning. But apparently a different word with the same definition still means a different thing...

[Regulus]

The only sad fact here is that this is somehow supposed to be a response to an argument about gun control.

It's suggestively racist, very off-topic, and logically flawed, all at the same time.

Now, back on topic or this thread is getting locked, and I don't want to have to do that. This thread has gone far enough into the dark ages already.

[TheLionPrince]

Ok......

So what do you guys think of Azdgari's suggestions?

- Limiting legal clip size to 10 (ideally 5 but I think that would be a tough sell) is reasonable.
- More thorough background checks and waiting periods are reasonable.
- Closing the gun show loopholes is not "reasonable", it's a no-brainer.
- More regulation on transfer of guns is reasonable: Your average citizen, without any sort of permit or authorization, should not be able to sell guns. It destroys the point of background checks and undermines basic security.

I think they are both reasonable and possible to pass in Congress.