Massive School Shooting at an Elementary School

[Azdgari]

It's up to the government to ensure the security of its people. If guns, or types of weapons, are a significant threat to that security, then yes, it is the government's place to say you may not own one.

[Woeler]

[quote="DGFone"]The reasons why I remove your PPs is because your mind the holy doesn't realize that when you disagree with something, you personally insult the person you disagree with.[/quote]
Well then you fail to recognize what is an insult and what is not. I've never had anybody else complain. Pretty sure it's just you.

[Regulus]

[quote="DGFone"]But I don't see the reason why the regular gun owners, who know how to use guns properly, and most importantly, safely, I really don't see why they should suffer because they like one thing, and others don't.[/quote]

Because 'mentally deficient' is extremely hard to define.

That's the problem.

[Azdgari]

[quote="Woeler"][quote="DGFone"]The reasons why I remove your PPs is because your mind the holy doesn't realize that when you disagree with something, you personally insult the person you disagree with.[/quote]
Well then you fail to recognize what is an insult and what is not. I've never had anybody else complain. Pretty sure it's just you.[/quote]
You can be insulting. It's not just him. ;3


Errr... Cynical?

[Regulus]

I'll put it this way:

I've been told, on several occasions, that I would be the kind of person to walk into class one day and shoot everyone. When I ask why, the answer is because I don't talk much.

I would never do that. I never even joke about doing such things.

Then, there's people that make jokes about that all the time, and are really cynical, but manage to go under the radar screen just because they're not being serious.

You can't define who is mentally sane and who is not, and be totally correct.

[DGFone]

[quote="Azdgari"]It's up to the government to ensure the security of its people. If guns, or types of weapons, are a significant threat to that security, then yes, it is the government's place to say you may not own one.[/quote]

But they are not "significant" threats. Sure, one time someone shot and killed twenty people. Yes, it's a tragedy, and should be mourned. But as far as numbers go, compared to the number of people who die through preventable means, guns don't pose a threat at all. Once again: more children die by drowning in swimming pools last year than those who died by guns for the past ten years combined.

Regulus: you can't stop all crime. But you can always say: "If you have this mental problem, you can't own guns". It won't stop all, but you have to realize that nothing will.

Also, I know this will really sound rude and "evil" but there was a study done and its conclusion proved common sense: As far as school shootings go, it's not the shooter that's at fault, but regulations on how to stop them. In the study, the classroom that fought back only had one person "die", with the shooter getting mauled within two round fired. In the classroom where the students didn't fight back, but hid as teachers tell us to do now, everyone "died". I know this sounds wrong, but at the end of the day, yes, choosing to get shot is not up to you. But choosing to fight back or not is. Do you let the dice determine whether you live or not, or are you going to make your own luck?

[Regulus]

[quote="DGFone"]Regulus: you can't stop all crime. But you can always say: "If you have this mental problem, you can't own guns". It won't stop all, but you have to realize that nothing will.[/quote]

One has to be diagnosed with a mental problem first. And, knowing that, if one wants to purchase a gun, they're not going to show that they have a mental problem.

Also, defining what is a mental problem is tricky business. There are guidelines, of course, but there is a vast amount of room for interpretation.

Can someone that suffers from mild chronic depression own a gun?

What about someone that recently suffered from the death of a family member? That would show up as depression on paper, but is totally normal.

What about someone with anxiety? ADHD? Bipolar?

And, the funny thing is, all anyone needs is a little bit of drugs and alcohol, and that's more of a problem than any mental disorder.

[DGFone]

Reg: How about this: When you go and buy a gun, what if it will be a requirement to be evaluated whether it's okay for you to get a gun or not. And it won't be just by all physiologists, but one that has to go through rigorous training and certification so that they will be able to make a good guess as to whether or not the potential customer is able to buy a gun or not. For instance, ADHD and bipolar diseases can be disqualifying conditions.

As for drugs and alcohol: Just these two things kill more people than them and guns combined. But say you are pulled over for DUI, and you are a gun owner, you'll have to give up the gun for a period of time where you prove that you can handle drugs and alcohol safely.

[Regulus]

[quote="DGFone"]Reg: How about this: When you go and buy a gun, what if it will be a requirement to be evaluated whether it's okay for you to get a gun or not. And it won't be just by all physiologists, but one that has to go through rigorous training and certification so that they will be able to make a good guess as to whether or not the potential customer is able to buy a gun or not. For instance, ADHD and bipolar diseases can be disqualifying conditions.[/quote]

The thing is, psychology is basically a joke. No offense to anyone who *actually* is a psychiatrist, but the whole system is completely messed up.

If you can't concentrate on something boring, you have ADHD. If you feel sad, you have depression. If you feel anxious about something, you have anxiety. You figured out that mental disorders are misdiagnosed? You have the newest, Denial and Justification of Legitimate Psychological Problems Disorder (DJLPPD)! Note: I am not saying that anyone doesn't have these conditions, or that they don't exist. I am saying that they can be misdiagnosed.

There's a reason why. Because, if you can be diagnosed with a mental condition, you're going to need medication for it. That's how the entire system works.

Yeah. Here in America, the greatest, freest country of all, the most perscribed medication is for depression.

Either the entire psychological industry is set up as a scam to make a profit, or Americans really are depressed.

Let's assume that the average American's mental health is indeed far below where it should be. Perhaps all the mental diagnoses are correct.

Maybe that's why. I'm almost certain that's why we've had so many mass shootings-- it's not because crazy people can get guns, but because our lives suck so much, it makes people crazy.

A hundred years ago, we didn't have this problem. In addition to the obvious fact that assault weapons were basically military prototypes back then, life was also different. Things were much simpler. We were more in touch with our instinct.

That's something we've sorta lost over time, and I don't think evolution has been able to keep up. Look at the life of a typical modern-day American. Are we really supposed to be living like that? Is it any wonder some people are depressed all the time?

[DGFone]

[quote="Regulus"][quote="DGFone"]
Maybe that's why. I'm almost certain that's why we've had so many mass shootings-- it's not because crazy people can get guns, but because our lives suck so much, it makes people crazy.

A hundred years ago, we didn't have this problem. In addition to the obvious fact that assault weapons were basically military prototypes back then, life was also different. Things were much simpler. We were more in touch with our instinct.
[/quote][/quote]

Just to be clear, a hundred years ago, the average citizen had better guns than what the military used. Up to, and somewhat past the civil war, a regular citizen would own a hunting rifle- one that can hit where you point it. It was much better than the muskets that the army would use. In fact, in the revolution, the militia's Kentucky Rifles were in fact the equivalent of a super weapon. The British hated them so much that they even complained.

And another statistic that all gun haters always ignore is this simple fact: Even as guns get more circulated, and the average gun gets deadlier, somehow, despite all that, gun violence is actually dropping, with less people dying each year from guns. And not just every now and then. It had been dropping steadily for the past two or three decades at least.

I don't know much about depression, apart form the fact that I had it, and my sister did too (I know why I got my depression though). Never in the middle of that, did I ever think of taking my own life, nor of someone else's. I handled guns then too. My sister also handled guns after her depression, when she wasn't legally allowed to own one (granted, she was underage, but it was due to her depression). She never even came close to killing anyone because she was always under close supervision from out parents.

What I'm getting at is that I think the best solution for gun violence is, while not making sense at face value, I think works well:

Force everyone to use a gun at least a few times. Teach them how to use them, as well as the responsibility behind them. In short, remove the "toy" nature of guns that society treats them today as, and get it into everyone's head that a gun is a tool, but one that requires great responsibility and restraint to handle.

And to back it up, there's a family with at least five kids, many of them very young, and plenty of guns simply laying around the house. The only time there was an accidental discharge? When a family friend from California, with some of the strictest gun laws in America, came over. Not knowing how to handle a gun, there was an accident...

...In a house with children as young as five or even less. The second time the Californian visited and accidently discharged a gun, they knew that this person was not safe with guns. The reason why this family never worried about the children being around guns (they were free to grab the guns at almost all times, usually under supervision) was because everyone in the family were taught how to handle firearms at a very young age.

What it comes down to is that if you train people how to handle guns properly, even if they are depressed, get bipolar disease, etc, the training will always be there in the back of the mind, preventing problems.

Just look at the military: the most stressful job in the world, the biggest, deadliest weapons in the world, and the only people who get shot are the enemies. If guns were themselves a problem, they wouldn't be adopted by the military, because soldiers would simply shoot themselves to death.

But if you train citizens how to handle guns as well as soldiers? Problem solved...

...Like in Switzerland. And Israel.