Election Day 2012

[Azdgari]

Roight, let's see what I can give you here, LionPrince:

Tax reform: Firstly, the experts don't seem very keen on the feasibility of his tax plan. With tax rates for the wealthy the lowest they've generally been since WWII, you support bringing them even lower? Not at all a loaded question, do you think that they should be lower? How do you compensate for that with the deficit?

Oil expansion: I think I'm trying to support more green energy, so that's not a huge concern to me. I understand it has effects for the economy, but I think that drilling for more oil is destructive to the environment and thusly immoral. I don't have a particular problem with the Keystone, in fact I think it's one of the safer and less destructive bits (offshore drilling is just ludicrously unsafe--impossibly under regulated with regard to safety inspections and upkeep)

less goverment regulation of the economy: Yikes, isn't that how we got into this mess? Letting Wall Street do as it will? That hasn't exactly been doing a world of good for us. Or what economic regulation do you mean?

Trading policies: Don't know enough about it.

Gay marriage: Though I agree with Woeler, we shall agree to disagree. Your argument is one of the few rational ones, so I applaud you for that.

Support for Israel: I don't want to support Israel. The US practice of backing questionable governments because they want allies in certain regions wasn't good politics during the cold war and it isn't good now. Israel is as much an instigator in the middle east as any nation in the region. I believe It's irresponsible to support them.

Lower the national deficit: I'm with you there. Obama needs to get his head screwed on straight and make that a priority. It's one of his big flaws in my eyes.

[TheLionPrince]

Oil expansion: I think I'm trying to support more green energy, so that's not a huge concern to me. I understand it has effects for the economy, but I think that drilling for more oil is destructive to the environment and thusly immoral. I don't have a particular problem with the Keystone, in fact I think it's one of the safer and less destructive bits (offshore drilling is just ludicrously unsafe--impossibly under regulated with regard to safety inspections and upkeep)

As much I want more green energy to preserve the environment, but where were you when Solyndra and Konarka, solar energy companies the Obama administration supported, filed Chapter 7 Bankrupty?

Plus, isn't solar energy expensive to install?

less goverment regulation of the economy: Yikes, isn't that how we got into this mess? Letting Wall Street do as it will? That hasn't exactly been doing a world of good for us. Or what economic regulation do you mean?

The facts indicate otherwise. During the Bush administration, goverment regulation of the economy actually increased. According to this website, between fiscal year 2001 and fiscal year 2009, regulatory spending, adjusted for inflation, increased from $26.4 billion to an estimated $42.7 billion, or 62%.

In fact, the article argues that President Bush was the biggest regulator since President Nixon, and the economy under Nixon was terrible: high unemployment, declining value of the U.S. dollar (which is why he got us off the gold standard), and hyperinflation.

Gay marriage: Though I agree with Woeler, we shall agree to disagree. Your argument is one of the few rational ones, so I applaud you for that.

Why! Thank you!

[TheBlackCatCrossing]

At this point I am leaning towards Obama.

1. He killed bin Laden (and was a total boss doing it)
2. Supports gay marriage (but enactin it through Congress is another story)
3. Health care plan (Now, if I was a nurse I would be fuming)

I am not crazy about Romney because he is for outsourcing. No.

The ONLY thing I wish he could have fixed was the economy. It's like putting a bandage on an amputated leg, I realize that. He inherited a can of worms. I believe that if we vote for him again, there will be something done.

[Azdgari]

Plus, isn't solar energy expensive to install?

Yes, but it's sustainable, and the costs are dropping as innovation continues. Solyndra failed, indeed, but that doesn't mean we should abandon green energy and try to lower our oil dependence. Literally everyone wins in that situation, except wealthy oil execs.

The facts indicate otherwise. During the Bush administration, goverment regulation of the economy actually increased. According to this website, between fiscal year 2001 and fiscal year 2009, regulatory spending, adjusted for inflation, increased from $26.4 billion to an estimated $42.7 billion, or 62%.

So you're arguing that Wall Street shouldn't be regulated? What accountability and trustworthiness have they demonstrated? No economist is saying "We needed to let Wall Street alone, then the bank crisis would have been averted." Wall Street has earned the trust of no one. Banks invested people's money irresponsibly and paid for it. Banks irresponsibly manipulated LIBOR, which "...dwarfs by orders of magnitude any financial scam in the history of markets." -Andrew Lo, MIT Professor of Finance. I don't know what regulations Bush put down, but obviously they weren't effective where they needed to be.

[Azdgari]

Obama coming out to City of Blinding Lights by U2 = literally the best ever

[Tacobell Lion]

Obama is the way to go in my opinion. He killed Bin Laden! I also like his health care plan.
I think he is the right choice for presidency. Every president in history have messed up a lot, but look at the good things they have done! ( well Nixon not so much, )

[TheBlackCatCrossing]

Obama is the way to go in my opinion. He killed Bin Laden! I also like his health care plan.
I think he is the right choice for presidency. Every president in history have messed up a lot, but look at the good things they have done! ( well Nixon not so much, )

To be fair, he stressed that we should respect China with his 'detente' theory and this was when we all had that fear of communism. But yes, I agree with you.

[DGFone]

To add a little bit of "real world and what politicians say don't match":

As some of you know, I recently came back from the hospital. This was because I had a follow-up surgery, and one that I really did not need, but really wanted. For other people who had the same problem as me, and went through the first surgery, they had an option: go through the follow-up surgery or not. Not to go into specifics, both options had pros and cons, and for many, when the question of "if you had the option, would you have taken the second surgery or not?", half would go through the second surgery again, and half would not.

Why is this related to politics:

There is one other group of people who were 100% for doing the second surgery, and non of them would only go through the first: they are on medicare (government healthcare). Because after the first surgery, you need to get medical supplies, and your insurance usually pays for them. Why are all the medicare people against this? Medicare grantees that they get the supplies at no cost...

1. The quality of the supplies provided by medicare is much worse than other variations that other insurance companies would pay for. (And yes, I tried both. The Medicare variation IS BAD.)

2. Per unit cost, Medicare was twice more expensive than others. Again, you yourself don't pay a cent, but how is the government supposed to lower the debt when it pays twice as much as it needs to, for worse quality service?

3. With my insurance, I had to deal with the company paying for too many supplies, to the point where I had more than I needed. Of course, insurance companies don't want to pay more than they need to, so one short phone call later fixed the problem. With Medicare, it was discovered that on average, people use up about 20 of these supplies per month, and that's all it pays for. It can happen that you will need more than 20, and if you are on medicare, no matter what you do, you will not get more, no matter how much you need these supplies.

TL/DR: Personal experience convinced me that the U.S. does not know how to provide healthcare to anyone.

[TheRoguePrince]

^well, that's what happens when you don't prepare for a debate

[TheRoguePrince]

^Now that's a real American stereotype. But lol, we both know those people who switched, will switch right back over to Obama if he does good in the next debate.