Kopa

[SummerSnowLeopard]

But, your like the only person currently debating with your reasons. I disagree with all your reasons because I think that they are illiogical. I'm sick of debating this. Let people think what they want. I doesn't matter who's right or wrong.

[Pixie]

Again, you haven't listened to anything I said. You say my reasons are illogical. Why?
I am letting people think what they want. I believe you are the one who isn't. Did you even read what I said about confusing new members? Your opinions make people think that Kopa was in the movie, based on no facts. But no, you didn't listen to that because I am right and you can't handle that.

[Pixie]

Again, you haven't listened to anything I said. You say my reasons are illogical. Why?
I am letting people think what they want. I believe you are the one who isn't. Did you even read what I said about confusing new members? Your opinions make people think that Kopa was in the movie, based on no facts. But no, you didn't listen to that because I am right and you can't handle that.

[TheDoctor]

I very strongly agree with Pixelicious.

And I think I've said this before, but it can't be stressed enough in the TLK community: You're allowed to believe whatever you want, but you must be aware of what is fact and what is theory here -

[quote="Pixielicious"]
I feel sorry for people who have just started looking into TLK, because they would get confused with the amount of people who say "Kopa is in TLK" or "Nala is Vitani's real mother" or "Sarafina and Taka were toootally in love" without saying that it is just what they think, and that the "facts" they are coming up with are completely made up.[/quote]
And this is why. There's a big difference between saying "I think Kopa was the cub at the end of TLK." and saying "Kopa was the cub at the end of TLK.". Please think of the newcomers and how much confusion you'll spare them of by adding "I think.." at the beginning of the sentence

[SummerSnowLeopard]

Well, I think Kopa was the TLK cub. Just like you think it was Kiara. And I don't wanna hear "Well your wrong" or "Thats illiogical" because I have my own right to beleive whatever I want. I think that there is reasonable evidence to support my theory. Just as you think that you have reasonable evidence as to your theory.

So can't we just all agree that we can think what we want? I mean, come on, this argument will probably never come to an end.

Kopa
Canon | Fanon

Kopa was in TLK6NA - Canon
Kiara was in SP - Canon

[TheDoctor]

^ It's good that we can agree

[SummerSnowLeopard]

Definetly. I like when people stop arguing about silly things like this. People have the right to think what they want.

[Misiziri]

Looking back on the pages, I see this debate has... risen again and its fiery climax is the argument between QueenSummer and Pixie!

Honestly, I'm rather bored of supporting Kopa as canon. I liked supporting him so much because there's tons of theories you can come up with. I know I could do the same for character's of my own, but I'm very... weird in this aspect. I won't really begin to develop a character unless it's drawn perfectly in Lion King style. And I have A LOT of trouble drawing in this style So you can do whatever you like with this nicely drawn (although the design is a bit bland), preexisting character, and he'll fit in cozily in little niches of the holey plot of SP. Of course, there's a whole multitude of theories you could formulate to fill the gaps, and Kopa is one of many. And there is no one set story for Kopa, like many Anti-Kopas (inlcuding SBS, yick) seem to think... although 'Zira killed Kopa, Simba is overprotective of Kiara' plot device is the most popular by FAR, there are so many other theories attributed to this debate-sparking little cubbie that it might ake you brain implode.

"La'Vie, you were arguing back and forth with SBS over Kopa as canon as if your opinion was the only one that mattered!"

Contrarily, I was more angry at SBS and his motives than I was angry at him not supporting Kopa. If this argument had been with Atouchofgrace (whatever happened to her...?) or Pixie I probably wouldn't have argued so bitterly. I got pis*ed because a 25/24-year-old man (He claims to be 14 when SP was released, which was in 1998), and I have reason to believe his age based on his wordy vocabulary and how he wrote essays for responses, was dedicating himself to Kopa's demise. It's possible he's younger, but I doubt he's much younger than he claims. And he never mentioned his age other than this one page, I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, he posted a YouTube vid about this, altered the Lion King Wiki about why he is NOT canon, spammed the heck out of this board and apparently battled elsewhere with others. I simply reacted by defending Kopa as canon, although I think he officially considered semi-canon now. I hate it when people devote such huge portions of time to a subject THAT IS NOT FACTUAL, ABOUT A CHARACTER PERTAINING TO AN ANIMATED FILM. No matter how sublime the film may be. Yeesh...

Now that that's clear, my current standing on the K-Cubbie is... Kopa is a versatile character. According to the most popular theory, he fits if you put him in, and he fits if you take him out. He could be included in the plot and it would make sense, abandon him and let him rot the plot still stands... it wobbles, but it stands. SBS argued about how he was unneccessary (stink at spelling that word) to the plot. He is, but he fits cozily in the missing slots, too. He's more flexible than a Fruit Roll-up.

That'll do it for now!

[PridelandsPhantom]

This is going to be a fairly long post so this is just to warn you. The basic point is Disney has the final word on what is considered cannon in their universe and what is not. As much as I love Kopa (and I adore Kopa ) and Mheetu they are not cannon. The cub ceremonies do look very different, but there is a reason for that. When I first saw SP I wondered "why did they make the cub be born all over again?". My logic was that the first cub in the ending was the second cub. The animators for SP were very different as well as the budget used on SP. Hence why Simba and Nala look so vastly different from their TLK counterparts. When the animators created TLK I doubt they anticipated what a success, well more like roaring smash it would be. It was, after all, the underdog project at Disney at the time. They didn't think anyone would want to see a movie about a lion cub that is falsely framed for his father's murder by his uncle. Of course, we all know how popular TLK was in 1994 through today. When making the film, the animators showed Simba and Nala's cub to show the completion of the circle of life. However, with the tremendous popularity of TLK Disney decided to do a sequel, and thus made the cub Kiara, who is the only cannon cub of Simba's.


Now, this is my opinion. I think Disney messed up, big time and just wanted to wipe all their mistakes away. TLKSNA are books I have only heard of after joining the forums. I never recall the book series being widely available is the U.S. Many picture books that were created during the might also refer to "Fluffy" as Simba's son. The cub does resemble infant Simba and most would assume a male heir would be needed to retain the throne. Disney was banking on most people never reading TLKSNA or most of those picture books. To be realistic, only most die-hard TLK fans know of Kopa, Mheetu, Chumvi etc. Because of this, Disney decided to make the cub female (I also think Disney did this to stave off complaints of being sexists, if the story involved another prince people would claim sexism). As for Mheetu, he suffers the unfortunate fate many brainstorm ideas do, he was deleted.

Note that this is my opinion and not Disney cannon, thank you: To me, Kopa exists and is the first born cub of Simba and Nala. I believe he was killed by Zira as a cub because Zira wanted her own cub to inheirit the throne, because she believes the lands belong to Scar, and thus his heir deserves to rule. As for Mheetu, I believe that he grew into being a teen lion, but Scar threatened to kill him so he had to take off on his own, or that as a young cub Nala sprinted him off to save him from Scar killing him. That is strictly fan-theory, however, so please do not tell me I am stating it as official. It's also my theory as to why Simba is so possesive and controlling of Kiara.

Now, I love Kopa because he's so much like Simba and I like the stories I've read with him in them. I wish I could get SNA but it's kind of expensive.

[DGFone]

The main reason why I like Kopa is because due to his unofficial status, you can play around with him so much. Almost all theories work (unless they break up TLK 1 facts, the undeniable truth in the series). You can dispute some points in TLK 2, or even its entirety.

But because Kopa is in such foggy territory (TLK:6NA do have the Disney logo on them), that Kopa is the ultimate RP/ other fan work dream. Everybody already know who he is, and anyone with self-respect will not go telling others "Oh, your theory is wrong." In short, you can make almost any Lion King fan work, replace a character's name with Kopa, and voilà! a (sub)canon character in your story. The only agreeable fact about Kopa is his name. And maybe his looks.

I know that whenever I see Kopa in something, I have no trouble treating him as canon. At the same time, if Kopa is not included, I have no trouble removing Kopa from my canon list. He's a common visitor, freely popping in and out of my canon list whenever I see him (or not).