Kopa

[SuperBabySimba]

[quote="atouchofgrace"][quote="Pixielicious"][quote="atouchofgrace"]Also, why do I keep seeing Kopa covered in blood? I thought Kopa fans liked him...[/quote]
Oh, you went there . It's a good point though, were only stating facts and yet were apparently "Killing Kopa" and yet they want him to be a real character so that they can.... kill him?
Oh, the hilarity.[/quote]
In my opinion, most fans use him only to justify the flaws of SP.[/quote]

What flaws? I mean what does the s stand for? If they didn't change Fluffy's design there would be nothing to go by to claim Kopa has something to do with SP. At least I'd like to think people wouldn't care about slightly different ceremony if at least the cub's design remained exactly the same. Or have I forgotten something?

I really wish SP's makers would've pointed out the retroactive continuity/remake aspect of the ceremony and cub in their Making of -documentary. But I guess they trusted that people know enough or try find out about professional film making and realize that when something isn't shown or even refered to, it never happened. Sadly they were wrong. Or they just didn't know about Kopa. In either case, i'd say that if they meant Kopa to be in the background of their film's story, that Making of -documentary would've been where they'd said so.

[atouchofgrace]

[quote="SuperBabySimba"]What flaws? I mean what does the s stand for? If they didn't change Fluffy's design there would be nothing to go by to claim Kopa has something to do with SP. At least I'd like to think people wouldn't care about slightly different ceremony if at least the cub's design remained exactly the same. Or have I forgotten something[/quote]

1 - "Simba and Nala look older in SP because Kiara was born after Kopa's death."
2 - "Simba is overprotective because of Kopa's death."
3 - "Zira was exiled because she killed Kopa."

Some Kopa lovers always find a way to include him in SP, no matter what.
The only flaw SP has is the different cub design, if you ignore the crappy animation, contrived plot and forgettable score that is.
You can always find flaws in movies but SP is far, far, far, far away from 9/10 almost perfect. I'm sure some will agree with me and some won't, but given the mediocre 5.9 IMDb rating, I'd say the general public agrees that SP is just an average movie. Not bad for a DTV Disney sequel, not good enough to fill TLK's shoes.

About the contrived plot:
Hi! I'm Kiara. I hang out with this guy, who is the son of a crazy lady who wants to kill my daddy, for like two days and I fall in love with him because we did the conga line with a monkey. He goes for a walk with my daddy and next thing I know, my daddy gets badly hurt and says it was my true love's fault. No, it can't be. He would never do that. I know him well! My almost boyfriend himself asks for my daddy's forgiveness which could mean he had something to do with it, but screw it! He's my true love and I'm so angsty! Daddy, please! Listen to him! He turned out good after the "Yee-haw" scene! After 15 "Yee-haws" he forgot about 2 or 3 years of his mother's lessons to become a killer. He loves me! For me! He even told me... wait... he never told me or showed me his romantic feelings... Oh well, I'm sure he does! Daddy, you're old and boring! You'll never be Mufasa, you know, that guy who is an extra in "Pocahontas".

[SuperBabySimba]

[quote="atouchofgrace"][quote="SuperBabySimba"]What flaws? I mean what does the s stand for? If they didn't change Fluffy's design there would be nothing to go by to claim Kopa has something to do with SP. At least I'd like to think people wouldn't care about slightly different ceremony if at least the cub's design remained exactly the same. Or have I forgotten something[/quote]

1 - "Simba and Nala look older in SP because Kiara was born after Kopa's death."
2 - "Simba is overprotective because of Kopa's death."
3 - "Zira was exiled because she killed Kopa."

Some Kopa lovers always find a way to include him in SP, no matter what.
The only flaw SP has is the different cub design, if you ignore the crappy animation, contrived plot and forgettable score that is.[/quote]

Especially as the over-protectiveness and the exile are perfectly sensible based on the first movie's events alone. The problem is in some fans' lack of ability to look at/into anything in it but the ending cub's design. I find it kinda sad that so many feel that a nameless characters design appearing for 10 seconds in the end is more essential than the rest of the film and its actual story.

But I disagree with the contrived plot opinion. I agree it is slightly that, but there's only so much they can do when they base Kiara/Kovu on Romeo & Juliet who were madly in love at the first sight and they're anyway mostly about teenage lust. At least Kiara & Kovu take a few days and aim at romance instead of sexing. And Juliet was angsty too because they banished Romeo and tried to force her to marry Paris. She was even angsty to the point of suicidal desires. They said Kovu's character bases on some other story about a boy who was raised by his mother and manipulated to become something and then as an adult learns the truth and starts to doubt his own self and what he should do. As in Kovu doesn't just forget about what he was raised to be. He struggles with it, it haunts him. I personally think they chose good stories to mix together and made it well into Disney level of light and darkness. But surely they could've done it better. I just personally don't think the plot and characterisation sucks as bad as many people feel it does.

Heck, again off-topic.

[Chumvikingpride]

Zira may be exiled for other reasons than "death of Kopa"

French zazu said about Outlander: there's nothing there apart a band of vicious outlaw malicious and sneaky

[atouchofgrace]

[quote="SuperBabySimba"]Especially as the over-protectiveness and the exile are perfectly sensible based on the first movie's events alone. The problem is in some fans' lack of ability to look at/into anything in it but the ending cub's design. I find it kinda sad that so many feel that a nameless characters design appearing for 10 seconds in the end is more essential than the rest of the film and its actual story.
[/quote]
Yes. Also, some say Nala doesn't like Zira because she killed Kopa.
I don't get it. If some crazy woman wanted to kill my husband and take my home, I'd hate her for that reason alone.
Honestly, I'd rather see Simba's inner struggle and his relationship with Kovu as the main plot instead of Kiara and Kovu's romance. I'd like to see more of Nuka and his relationship with Zira too.

[Misiziri]

[quote="Moka"]Its a debate, thats for sure. I can see why people would say he existed. Simba and Nala made a mistake and Kopa ran away, or got kidnapped, or died. Then in Simba's Pride no one is allowed to talk about it because they'd be protecting Kiara. Its obvious that a lot of things changed between the "Kopa" ceremony and the Kiara ceremony. One example is that Simba and Nala aged quite a bit. Simba looks like a full adult male and Nala looks more like Sarabi. In the Kopa ceremony they still looked like young adults. So maybe he did exist. Disney certainly never mentioned Kopa anywhere but the Six New Adventures, so I dunno.[/quote]

AGREED.

[SuperBabySimba]

[quote="Moka"]Its a debate, thats for sure. I can see why people would say he existed. Simba and Nala made a mistake and Kopa ran away, or got kidnapped, or died. Then in Simba's Pride no one is allowed to talk about it because they'd be protecting Kiara. Its obvious that a lot of things changed between the "Kopa" ceremony and the Kiara ceremony. One example is that Simba and Nala aged quite a bit. Simba looks like a full adult male and Nala looks more like Sarabi. In the Kopa ceremony they still looked like young adults. So maybe he did exist. Disney certainly never mentioned Kopa anywhere but the Six New Adventures, so I dunno.[/quote]

To me there's nothing uncertain or confusing. And in my opinion there shouldn't be--not if you care enough to look at the big picture:

1.) 1994: Kopa first appeared into only a few books, all written by non-Disney people. As in, Disney didn't even care to write him themselves if they even had anything to do with him.
2.) 1995: TLK's makers chose to call the film's cub Fluffy with no gender given, even when they already had Kopa in their copyrights and could've turned the cub into hin if they wanted to. Apparently, they didn't want to.
3.) 1998: SP's makers didn't tie Kopa into their film in any way whatsoever either, even though Kopa was still in their copyrights and had even gained some popularity in the fandom. They've never even talked about him in any way.
4.) 2004: 10 years of Kopa in the books! TLK1½ is released. If they wanted to, they could've made a sequel with Kopa. They didn't.
5.) 2011: 16 years of Kopa in the books! Not a single soul at The Walt Disney Company has ever talked about Kopa--at least not for any story means. For all I know, not even at all.
6.) Disney doesn't even have him on their official web site in any way. (At least I can't find anything with their search tool.)
7.) They even stopped selling those books long ago while they never sold them outside USA.

As in: The Walt Disney Company--the very least the film makers--are utterly NOT interested in Kopa what-so-ever. Because if they were, they'd at least talked about him at some point.

Resulting in: I'm 110% certain they did not make up a story for Kopa at all, and even more certain that they didn't hide him into SP, Kopa never existed in the movies. Because they haven't even shown interest in him, not half a word. In my logic, you don't make up stories for something you don't care about.

Kopa doesn't officially exist outside his books. Yet. Maybe he never will--but who knows, perhaps some new generation of The Walt Disney Company actually gets interested in him. But I wouldn't hold my breath: Disney has never made a film out of characters other than the film makers' own creative teams creations, or of characters from old epic tales. Plus, the fact that currently the chief guy there is very much anti-sequel.

[TheDoctor]

[quote="SuperBabySimba"]Plus, the fact that currently the chief guy there is very much anti-sequel.[/quote]
And thank goodness for that

Edit: Oh, yeah, that picture.

Personally I blame those features on lack of artistic skill rather than purposely making Kopa look different fom cub Simba. I too think that that Kopa is a Simba-clone

[Kopalover]

Kopa !!!! <3 Kopa is my favorite character.. I will ALWAYS believe that Kopa is Simba's son, and is betrothed to Vitani

[Pixie]

[quote="TheDoctor"][quote="SuperBabySimba"]Plus, the fact that currently the chief guy there is very much anti-sequel.[/quote]
And thank goodness for that

Edit: Oh, yeah, that picture.

Personally I blame those features on lack of artistic skill rather than purposely making Kopa look different fom cub Simba. I too think that that Kopa is a Simba-clone [/quote]

Lack of skill????
GET OUT!
DJcoulz is a legend!