Kopa

[Nadra]

[quote="TheDoctor"][quote="Annie"]I quite like the idea of Kopa being the opposite of Scar. Really pleased not to be king and really helpful, I think Simba should have something go right in his life for once haha![/quote]
I agree too He could be the nice, friendly uncle to Kiara's cubs. I quite like that idea in fact. [/quote]
I've actually never thought of that, but I like the idea...
I thought Kopa would become King and Kiara and Kovu would just leave... or rule together with Kopa.

[SummerSnowLeopard]

I suppose that if the books weren't as popular as the movie its self or atleast half as popular that they wouldn't sell it outside the USA.

[PridelandsPhantom]

I've been wanting to write on this subject for a while, I finally have some time off work, so warning it's going to be a bit of a long post. Kopa is one of my favorite characters, but when it comes to cannon vs. non-cannon the only place that Kopa officially exists is in TLKSNA. When I was a child I thought the cub at the end of TLK was a male, because I figured Simba would have a son to continue on his line. Kopa is one of those topics that's very interesting because I do not think Disney was really thinking clearly. The MIGHT have assumed the cub was a male before making SP because they did not plan on making another movie. It was just to show Simba and Nala had balanced out the circle of life. However, Disney, in my opinion made a big error in trying to say the cub at the end of the first film was Kiara. The ceremonies are far too different, and even I would not buy that they're the same cub. Part of the problem is that different animators worked on SP and I think they were in a rush to create a sequel to one of their most popular and successful films. Disney decided to fudge and change things because they wanted to have a female lead, a princess rather than a prince and because Romeo and Juliet was what SP was based around. So, officially by the Disney company, Simba's only cub is Kiara.

Now onto Kopa: Even though to Disney he is not official or does not exist, I still think Disney could acknowledge that lions generally have more than one cub. Scar and Mufasa were brothers. I do believe they do one cub for convience. However, I think Disney needs to think of more than just the bottom line. My theory (now it's my theory, not officially) is that Kopa was killed by Zira so that Simba would be deprived of an heir. I think this was part of the reason that the outlanders were banished from the pridelands. I like the pound of flesh line by Zira, it points to her doing something a bit more sinister. I believe Kopa would have been a facinating character, perhaps Kopa somehow struggling with the idea of taking the throne. I love Kopa because he has a lot of cub Simba and Nala in him. I like Kiara, but I think Disney made her too much of a damsel in distress. I am also partial to the idea that Kopa was able to escape, even though he was near death. I like to think he would join a rogue pride and someday come back to claim his place at the throne, confronting his father. I also like the idea of him with Vitani.

[SummerSnowLeopard]

The only problem with the theory of "Kopa and Kiara Were Born At The Same Time..." is that in the cut scene of "Nuka and Vitani's News" Vitani says, "Simba's new cub is a girl!" So that wouldn't make sense.

I do hope that Kopa comes back to claim the throne and confront his father.

I do think that Disney should have used the same animators for SP that they used for TLK. That would make things so much easier to understand. I do think that Disney should have made an Ousider lioness (Vitani) as the love interest for Kopa. That would fit in with the story line - sort of. It would be another way for the Romeo and Juliet thing to work.

I beleive the following:
Kopa - canon
The Lion King II: Simba's Pride - canon

Sorry for the long post

[SuperBabySimba]

I never had problems in buying that Kiara is the cub at the end. Not only because I had never heard of Kopa but because in my logic what a professionally made film doesn't show visually or in spoken lines, it never happened. Because professional film making includes that everything essential, major and crucial about a storyline is literally revealed. And thus, naturally if something is different from what I originally saw but it isn't explained in the film, it is a remake and nothing more.

Oh, and another reason why I never suspected there ever was another cub, is that Zira is downright bitter about the exile, while she's evidently evil psycho. Especially "My Lullaby" makes it come off as an unjust exile in her eyes instead of something she got for doing something that gave her great pleasure. I mean, she's an evil psycho and thus if she'd actually done something to deserve the exile, I'd think she'd be basking in half-triumph and openly brgging about her crime instead of bitterly whining and complaining all the time.

I like the pound of flesh line because it testes how well viewer pays attention to the film's events and lines spoken.

KOVU and Kiara half-accidentally cross the border to the side of Pridelands according to the following:

Zira: "These lands belong to SCAR."
Simba: "I banished you from the Pridelands. Now you and your young cub: GET OUT."
....
Simba: "You know the penalty for returning to Pridelands!"
Zira: "But the child does not! However, if you need your pound of flesh... Here." (pushes Kovu towards Simba)

Hence, they created a situation wherein a banished person had returned to Pridelands and Simba lets us know there's a penalty for doing so but leaves us guessing what might it be. Then Zira's line about the pound of flesh and pushing the actual criminal to Simba, let's us know that the penalty is death. And death penalty has been very common in kingdoms, especially for exiled people to make sure they stay away. The crime for why the exile, is never relevant to the matter while it could be very minor or even nothing, as in an innocent person exiled.

[SummerSnowLeopard]

I don't beleive and did not claim that Zira was responsible for Kopa's death/disappearence. He probably just ran off.

[SuperBabySimba]

[quote="QueenSummer"]I don't beleive and did not claim that Zira was responsible for Kopa's death/disappearence. He probably just ran off.[/quote]

Why would he run off? The books portray him as a happy cub who's eager to become king and close with his father. (Pretty much a copy of Simba.) So, what happened in your vision?

[SummerSnowLeopard]

Well, in my vision:

Kopa is eager to become King and is very happy. However, he falls in love with Vitani. He gets caught by his father and is broken-hearted. Hopes and dreams shattered, Kopa runs off but becomes lost. He is found by another Pride. The Pride does not let him leave.

Much later, Kopa escapes and returns home as an adult.

[atouchofgrace]

[quote="QueenSummer"]However, he falls in love with Vitani.[/quote]
But why Kopa and Vitani? Kopa is from SNA and Vitani is from SP. They never even meet each other...
This is what I don't get about these theories. Fans can have their own ideas but this whole "Zira killed Kopa" and "Vitani is in love with Kopa" just doesn't make sense since Kopa is from a different universe. That is just a desperate attempt to connect TLK, SNA and SP. Is it Vitani just because she's the only girl cub who is not his own sister? Yes.
And why do I keep seeing exactly the same theories over and over again? Why does it always have to be "Zira killed Kopa" and "Vitani is in love with Kopa"?
It seems like fans don't even care to make their own theories, they just read it and accept it as the truth and that's it.

[SuperBabySimba]

[quote="QueenSummer"]Well, in my vision:

Kopa is eager to become King and is very happy. However, he falls in love with Vitani. He gets caught by his father and is broken-hearted. Hopes and dreams shattered, Kopa runs off but becomes lost. He is found by another Pride. The Pride does not let him leave.

Much later, Kopa escapes and returns home as an adult.[/quote]

- Why does he fall in love with Vitani?
- Does Vitani return the romantic love regardless of the remarkable age difference? (The cub Kiara seemed to have a little crush on the cub Kovu, but the cub Kovu didn't seem to feel it back. He fell for her when they were grown-up.)
- Kopa had exactly the same much of mane before he ran away as Kovu has at the film's time. How is this possible when Kopa is at least a year younger than Kovu and the books don't mention a sister to Kopa?
- And why doesn't the other pride let him leave?