Did Simba and Nala become mates in CanYouFeelTheLoveTonight?

Did Simba and Nala become mates in CanYouFeelTheLoveTonight?

Postby AnonLion » June 22nd, 2017, 7:59 pm

I'm not entirely sure how to interpret what happens during Can You Feel the Love Tonight, because at first glance it's obviously a song about Simba and Nala's heartfelt reunion, but after it's over it's pretty vague if their relationship actually changed. In my head it could either be: they reunited during the song and sometime after Scar was defeated they did become mates, or, they got together during the song and even conceived Kiara too.

I'm more inclined for the latter after watching the alternate version of Simba and Nala's reunion that wasn't used in the movie, especially by Timon's line "Loving and leaving, very smooth kid very smooth" and Simba's obvious "I love you". Technically it's not canon but it was scripted by the movie writers.

Your thoughts? How did you guys interpret this scene?
Last edited by AnonLion on June 22nd, 2017, 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Did Simba and Nala become mates in CanYouFeelTheLoveToni

Postby Elton John » June 22nd, 2017, 9:27 pm

My interpretation of the scene is that they concieved Kiara during it. Right in between Nala's 'love stare' and the scene after that.

IIRC during the directors audio commentary it was pretty much confirmed.
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Re: Did Simba and Nala become mates in CanYouFeelTheLoveToni

Postby TheLionPrince » June 23rd, 2017, 12:13 am

I personally interpret the scene as no more than passionate kissing. Yeah, the filmmakers described "Can You Feel the Love Tonight" as something on the lines as the "steamiest love scene in a Disney film" on the audio commentary so I see the implication that's there.

EDIT: SimbasGuard brought up a good point. Lionesses are usually pregnant on an average of four months, and the restoration of the Pride Lands had to have taken long than that. So, it's extremely likely Simba and Nala mated shortly after Simba became king.
Last edited by TheLionPrince on June 23rd, 2017, 6:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Did Simba and Nala become mates in CanYouFeelTheLoveToni

Postby SimbasGuard » June 23rd, 2017, 2:51 pm

Now that Elton John brought up The Director's Commentary. Also because that on said commentary The Directors describe Nala's (I think it is now safe to call famous) Look as a come hither look makes it rather impossible for me to defend my theory that Can You Feel The Love Tonight was just a case of Simba And Nala realizing that their friendship had developed into love. Because I had never taken it any other way before. I just find it much more romantic to believe that Simba And Nala's relationship as mates began with the words "Will you be my" rather than simply "May I".

As for when Kiara was conceived, that had to be some time after Simba had become King. When Kiara was presented to The Kingdom as (basically) a newborn,The Pride Lands had recovered from the condition they were in when Simba took The Throne. The time it took for them to heal would have been much longer than the term of a lioness pregnancy.
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Re: Did Simba and Nala become mates in CanYouFeelTheLoveToni

Postby AnonLion » June 23rd, 2017, 6:54 pm

Very interesting points. In that case considering the time lapse of a lioness' pregnancy and the commentary we could try to put it together like this:

During "Can You Feel The Love Tonight" Simba and Nala realize their relationship developed from friendship to love and mate, however they don't conceive Kiara. Some time after Scar is defeated and Nala is officially queen Kiara is conceived and is born right on time when the Pridelands are finally restored.

It sounds about right and makes more sense to me now.
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Re: Did Simba and Nala become mates in CanYouFeelTheLoveToni

Postby Squeely » June 23rd, 2017, 9:00 pm

Yeah, I agree it's far more likely for Kiara to have been conceived later. The only way I could buy CYFtLT being the moment when that happened is if magic helped restore the land, which to be fair, is in line with the canon of the TLK verse as a whole. But I like to think things happened more naturally.
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Re: Did Simba and Nala become mates in CanYouFeelTheLoveToni

Postby Panpardus » June 23rd, 2017, 11:10 pm

While I'd personally prefer for a bit more time to have passed between the implied mating scene and Kiara's/Kion's presentation (especially with the Outsider-related stuff) I still don't see a four-month timespan as impossible for the land to have been naturally restored if you just assume that the Pride Lands was simply nearing the end of a regular drought season at the time Simba returned, with Scar's real impact being the forcing of the herds to leave the territory via his overhunting/hyena policy.

(Plus, for what it's worth, the "the talk" reference from Return of the Roar kinda solidified it for me.)

Also, I've never seen that alternate scene before; it was very nicely executed in my honest opinion. Made Simba's decision to leave seem less impulsive, too. Plus, you have all four traveling together, so it makes a lot more sense as to how everyone actually arrived back in the Pride Lands at the same time...
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Re: Did Simba and Nala become mates in CanYouFeelTheLoveToni

Postby SimbasGuard » June 24th, 2017, 1:37 am

AnonLion wrote:During "Can You Feel The Love Tonight" Simba and Nala realize their relationship developed from friendship to love and mate, however they don't conceive Kiara. Some time after Scar is defeated and Nala is officially queen Kiara is conceived and is born right on time when the Pridelands are finally restored.


Perfect! I can alter my viewpoint based on that :thumbsup:

Panpardus wrote:While I'd personally prefer for a bit more time to have passed between the implied mating scene and Kiara's/Kion's presentation (especially with the Outsider-related stuff) I still don't see a four-month timespan as impossible for the land to have been naturally restored if you just assume that the Pride Lands was simply nearing the end of a regular drought season at the time Simba returned, with Scar's real impact being the forcing of the herds to leave the territory via his overhunting/hyena policy.


I suppose it is possible being that the rain returned when Simba did. However due to the far more sever damage brought about by Scar allowing The Hyenas to overhunt. It would have taken far longer than normal for the Pride Lands to heal. The Pride Lands weren't just dry, they were destroyed. Keep in mind Sarabi felt it was a death sentence to stay in The Pride Lands this time, where as in times past The Pride Lands had survived dry/drought seasons.

Panpardus wrote:Plus, for what it's worth, the "the talk" reference from Return of the Roar kinda solidified it for me.


The way I see that would be Simba explaining to Kion what "The Talk" usually implies. while It makes perfect sense for Simba to use the night he and Nala fell in love (and what likely happened after that) as his example (this would also account for Kion's terror at the possibility of having "The Talk" again, as the first time undoubtedly left Kion with some very disturbing thoughts in his head). I doubt Simba would be so insensitive of Kion 's feelings as to tell him of the night he and his sister were conceived. As that may have left Kion traumatized rather than just disturbed.

As for the alternate scene I never take things that didn't make it into the final cut of the movie as a viable source for anything as said scenes were cut/changed for a reason they do not count as canon material.

That being said what they were implying in that alternate scene is far more blunt and even I could not see things any other way had that scene been used.
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Re: Did Simba and Nala become mates in CanYouFeelTheLoveToni

Postby Panpardus » June 24th, 2017, 2:14 am

SimbasGuard wrote:
Panpardus wrote:While I'd personally prefer for a bit more time to have passed between the implied mating scene and Kiara's/Kion's presentation (especially with the Outsider-related stuff) I still don't see a four-month timespan as impossible for the land to have been naturally restored if you just assume that the Pride Lands was simply nearing the end of a regular drought season at the time Simba returned, with Scar's real impact being the forcing of the herds to leave the territory via his overhunting/hyena policy.


I suppose it is possible being that the rain returned when Simba did. However due to the far more sever damage brought about by Scar allowing The Hyenas to overhunt. It would have taken far longer than normal for the Pride Lands to heal. The Pride Lands weren't just dry, they were destroyed. Keep in mind Sarabi felt it was a death sentence this time, where as in times past The Pride Lands had survived dry/drought seasons.


True, though that is still why I think a lot of people slightly overstate what is meant by damage. I feel like I elaborated on this topic in a different thread, but basically as you said, Sarabi refers to the fact that "the herds have moved on" and Scar's unwillingness to follow them as the death sentence. Hence, the real problem isn't necessarily the severe drought or the even that the hyenas and lions killed all the prey in the area (which they didn't), it's that the prey animals themselves - at least the ones that don't regularly migrate when the dry season hits - all up and left as a result of increased hunting pressures that they probably hadn't bargained for when they decided to accept the local lions' rule however many generations ago. (It also explains somewhat why the remaining lionesses don't exactly look starved, despite having to compete directly with the hyena clan for years.) If the drought had ended and the rains came without Simba's return, the Pride Lands would've probably been just as barren and the situation just as dire for the remaining lions and hyenas because Scar and his policies were still in place.

Remember, for what it's worth, it's mentioned in "Can't Wait to be Queen" that the deceased elephant Aminifu played a key role in helping to restore order to the food web, which from an ecological perspective here just means convincing all the Pride Lands herbivores to come back once word got out that Simba was now king and the more herbivore-friendly policies were restored. So I mean, that coupled with the timing of Simba's return relative to the start of the rainy season is what makes the whole 4-month period entirely plausible, at least to me.
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Re: Did Simba and Nala become mates in CanYouFeelTheLoveToni

Postby SimbasGuard » June 24th, 2017, 6:48 am

Panpardus wrote:Sarabi refers to the fact that "the herds have moved on" and Scar's unwillingness to follow them as the death sentence. Hence, the real problem isn't necessarily the severe drought or the even that the hyenas and lions killed all the prey in the area (which they didn't), it's that the prey animals themselves - at least the ones that don't regularly migrate when the dry season hits - all up and left as a result of increased hunting pressures that they probably hadn't bargained for when they decided to accept the local lions' rule however many generations ago. (It also explains somewhat why the remaining lionesses don't exactly look starved, despite having to compete directly with the hyena clan for years.) If the drought had ended and the rains came without Simba's return, the Pride Lands would've probably been just as barren and the situation just as dire for the remaining lions and hyenas because Scar and his policies were still in place.


Excellent point even with the help of the rain The Pride Lands would not have healed under Scar's Rule.

Panpardus wrote:Remember, for what it's worth, it's mentioned in "Can't Wait to be Queen" that the deceased elephant Aminifu played a key role in helping to restore order to the food web, which from an ecological perspective here just means convincing all the Pride Lands herbivores to come back once word got out that Simba was now king and the more herbivore-friendly policies were restored. So I mean, that coupled with the timing of Simba's return relative to the start of the rainy season is what makes the whole 4-month period entirely plausible, at least to me.


True, but for the herbivores to come back let alone the elephant herds there had to be significant healing in The Pride Lands in order for there to be enough vegetation to sustain them. I just don't think enough vegetation could grow in a four month span to feed a herd of Elephants let alone all of the other herbivores.
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