New episode 'Lions of the outlands'?

[ScarXZira10889]

Actually, no it isn't. It is about the "Zira's family" scene. Most people are wondering who the father is/was because he didn't show up as a drawing. -.-

[Carl]

TTB-Kun is right, this thread is about the entire episode. There are a few other threads where the topic of Zira's mate and her cubs' father can be discussed, too, so it shouldn't become the sole topic of this particular thread. There was a lot more to the episode than that. In fact I would like to discuss the fact that Zira didn't use Kion's friendship with hyenas to aliken him to Scar. She could have easily manipulated him into believing that Scar was only so hated and only resorted to evil because of his friendship with hyenas. Kion knows the Pridelanders hate hyenas, and he knows that groups like Janja's give them good reason to, since they don't really see groups like Jasiri's. It would be easy for Zira to convince him that Scar had befriended good hyenas who were being mistreated and that those misunderstandings led to his turning on his own Guard and Mufasa. Imo it would have been much more effective and much more in character. I'm honestly not a big fan of the song in the episode because it, too seems out of character.

[ScarXZira10889]

Mmm... You really trust this kid? Go for it.

[Panpardus]

In fact I would like to discuss the fact that Zira didn't use Kion's friendship with hyenas to aliken him to Scar. She could have easily manipulated him into believing that Scar was only so hated and only resorted to evil because of his friendship with hyenas. Kion knows the Pridelanders hate hyenas, and he knows that groups like Janja's give them good reason to, since they don't really see groups like Jasiri's. It would be easy for Zira to convince him that Scar had befriended good hyenas who were being mistreated and that those misunderstandings led to his turning on his own Guard and Mufasa. Imo it would have been much more effective and much more in character. I'm honestly not a big fan of the song in the episode because it, too seems out of character.

That's a really good idea; I actually hadn't thought of that. The only problem is that I think she played her hand a little too soon in this episode, so having this additional information/dialogue would've just been a little too much exposition for the allotted time. If they'd played her off as a more serious threat (instead of just blasting them away with the roar in arguably the most comical fashion I've yet seen against an enemy) and really drew out the 'dark mentor' storyline, this could - no should - have definitely been a point that Zira would raise.

As for the song, I don't think it was actually too far out of character, but the context for it could've been better established. I think it would've worked better had Zira been singing it to Kovu instead of Kion, in an attempt to harden his feelings towards other animals as part of his training. (She was, after all, training him to not only take over, but to be king.) Kion's a bit too morally righteous to be swayed by her vision of lion rule (even though his job is essentially a form of maintaining a softer form of said rule), or at least the line of reasoning she tries to employ during the song.

[KionScar]

Agreed. I think my headcanon from here on out will be that those were actually a different cluster of termite mounds, a bit far away from the first one. It's the only solution I can see to reconciling this mistake.

I agree as well. I believe that where The Outsiders ended up at the end of the episode was just eerily similar to where they were at the beginning of Lion King 2

This is probably one of my favorite episodes so far still anyhow. Mainly because of Kovu.

Anyhow, as for the mound the lions end up at. I think Zira's line was more meant to be disgruntled sarcasm, if the mounds indeed are the same as in SP.

SP Mound from Zira's My Lullaby


Yet, let's take a momentary look at SP when Kiara snuck off from Timon & Pumbaa:



--

The termite mound they end up by is actually this one (as it seems to be), as for the differences in ground (besides different art obviously) it could be drier here in TLG, or in SP… hmm...





It could also be that TLG's one is the view from the other side...

[gothprincesskiara]

Agreed. I think my headcanon from here on out will be that those were actually a different cluster of termite mounds, a bit far away from the first one. It's the only solution I can see to reconciling this mistake.

I agree as well. I believe that where The Outsiders ended up at the end of the episode was just eerily similar to where they were at the beginning of Lion King 2

This is probably one of my favorite episodes so far still anyhow. Mainly because of Kovu.

Anyhow, as for the mound the lions end up at. I think Zira's line was more meant to be disgruntled sarcasm, if the mounds indeed are the same as in SP.

SP Mound from Zira's My Lullaby


Yet, let's take a momentary look at SP when Kiara snuck off from Timon & Pumbaa:



--

The termite mound they end up by is actually this one (as it seems to be), as for the differences in ground (besides different art obviously) it could be drier here in TLG, or in SP… hmm...





It could also be that TLG's one is the view from the other side...

omg never would have noticed this that is pretty cool

[SimbasGuard]

I would like to discuss the fact that Zira didn't use Kion's friendship with hyenas to aliken him to Scar.

Very interesting Idea. If Zira makes another appearance (As I believe she will) perhaps she could use this comparison to shake Kion's confidence, not in The Roar, but in himself. Being that Kion's greatest fear is becoming like Scar, that could still be a useful tactic.

Anyhow, as for the mound the lions end up at. I think Zira's line was more meant to be disgruntled sarcasm, if the mounds indeed are the same as in SP. It could also be that TLG's one is the view from the other side...

That is a more plausible theory (as you visual examples point out very convincingly). It just seems to me that having the Outsiders land in the same place that they were in Lion King 2 and having Zira be sarcastic about it. Makes it look more like a major continuity error, rather than the perhaps comical ending that they may have been going for.

[Starfire Lions]

Has anyone else realized that this episode doesn't go along with SP?
in TLG:
This all takes place after Kovu meets Kiara, obviously. Kion roars them into the termite mound area.
in SP:
Kovu meets Kiara, and immediately returns to the termite mound area. They are living there.

So.... the tlg episode couldn't have occurred within the minuscule time between Zira bringing Kovu home (to the termite mound) and and Kovu meeting Kiara. They pretty much tried to squish it in there so TLG would be, if remotely, connected to SP.

[Panpardus]

Everyone realized the visual continuity error. (See pretty much all the comments above yours for the various discussions.) It was mostly likely a botched attempt at a forced callback, though if you wanted you could interpret it as a poorly delivered sarcastic line from Zira.

[Kallo]

Yep, a continuity mistake is a continuity mistake, and can't get anywhere from that. But at least this one can be explained off rather easily. For example, either Zira's group could've already been to the termite lands before, and Kion just roared them back there, or the termite land scene in TLK2 doesn't take place immediately after "We Are One", but at some other, later point in time. I still like those two explanations the best, to swipe off the minor continuity error.