New episode 'Lions of the outlands'?

[gothprincesskiara]

[quote="Troll Berserker"]It was a lovely episode. Interesting and I loved to see the old characters back. It also explains some things, such as Kion's disapearance during SP. Zira's song was great and I enjoyed the visuals refering to both My Lullaby, Be Prepared and Scar's introduction.

Maybe the termite mounds are further away from Pridelands. During the timeskip Oulanders moved to another place that's noticeably closer to Pridelands and when they were kicked back to termite mounds Zira decided they will not return. That's just my theory.

I also loved Kovu there. It was clear he wanted to be back in Pridelands and I found it really cute that from the way he was acting we could see he's a good guy.[/quote]

thats whats I was saying as well I was saying that THE OUTLANDS extend
remember everyone the Outlands are big and different territory's for our enemies, cause you got the Elephant Graveyard you got Scars lair, and you got the termite mound towers so here is where that rocky tower could be, and Zira's family goes back and forth between the 2 areas.

[Squeely]

[quote="SimbasGuard"]I enjoyed that aspect as well and even though it requires reading in to what Zira actually said. I think her comment "Scar and I were close. Very close." Hints very heavily (To Me anyway) that Nuka is Indeed Scar's son. I think it is very possible that Scar and Zira had a relationship during Mufasa's reign and that Scar did not bring Zira to The Pride Lands until he became King.[/quote]
Y'know, this makes a lot of sense. Imagine Scar knowing Mufasa would kill any cubs he had. Imagine Scar knowing Mufasa would not approve of the relationship, perhaps because Zira herself was leading all those lionesses and thus posed a threat. It would add to Scar's animosity towards Mufasa.

Something contradicting it, is if one takes Scar flirting with Nala to be canon. But who knows, maybe Scar and Zira had a falling out, albeit not one that was bad enough to keep Zira away for good.

With regards to Kion winning fights, it didn't bother me. Most of what he did was outmaneuvering and hitting lionesses at just the right time. Proves Kion is a great fighter since he uses tactics and size of his opponents to his advantage.

[SimbasGuard]

[quote="Squeely"]Something contradicting it, is if one takes Scar flirting with Nala to be canon. But who knows, maybe Scar and Zira had a falling out, albeit not one that was bad enough to keep Zira away for good.[/quote]

Actually in the original movie. Scar tells Sarabi: "I am The King, I can do whatever I want." So it does fit perfectly if you want to see Scar's advances toward Nala as canon. In his mind he would not have to justify himself to Zira, because he is The King.

[quote="Squeely"]With regards to Kion winning fights, it didn't bother me. Most of what he did was outmaneuvering and hitting lionesses at just the right time. Proves Kion is a great fighter since he uses tactics and size of his opponents to his advantage.[/quote]

Exactly I would love to know who is responsible for Kion's combat training. Although I have my own ideas on that.

[Squeely]

[quote="SimbasGuard"]
Actually in the original movie. Scar tells Sarabi: "I am The King, I can do whatever I want." So it does fit perfectly if you want to see Scar's advances toward Nala as canon. In his mind he would not have to justify himself to Zira, because he is The King.[/quote]
That's true. Perhaps Zira got fed up with Scar because he kept fooling around. Or maybe she didn't because they're lions.

[KionofTheLionGuard]

[quote="SimbasGuard"][quote="Squeely"]Something contradicting it, is if one takes Scar flirting with Nala to be canon. But who knows, maybe Scar and Zira had a falling out, albeit not one that was bad enough to keep Zira away for good.[/quote]

Actually in the original movie. Scar tells Sarabi: "I am The King, I can do whatever I want." So it does fit perfectly if you want to see Scar's advances toward Nala as canon. In his mind he would not have to justify himself to Zira, because he is The King.

[quote="Squeely"]With regards to Kion winning fights, it didn't bother me. Most of what he did was outmaneuvering and hitting lionesses at just the right time. Proves Kion is a great fighter since he uses tactics and size of his opponents to his advantage.[/quote]

Exactly I would love to know who is responsible for Kion's combat training. Although I have my own ideas on that. [/quote]

I too, think Nala taught Kion how to fight ^^

[Panpardus]

Random fridge thoughts.

I'm realizing that Zira and her followers definitely seem to have been from another region and only came to the Pride Lands after Scar took over. The way she acted throughout Simba's Pride already kind of confirmed it for me insofar as her devotion to Scar -- plus it was just easier to reconcile why she didn't appear in the first film -- but on top of that Rafiki states in his history lesson to the Guard that when Simba returned and explained why his own rule was 'legitimate', Zira was unswayed, which sounds like something someone would feel if all they knew was Scar and then this random interloper showed up and killed him off.

I'm also tempted to think that Zira's never actually seen the roar herself until Kion used it; she only knew of its powers via Scar telling her about retroactively, which would also explain why she ultimately misinterpreted the true reason as to why he lost it in the first place. Scar could've very easily just lied to her about his reasons for killing his fellow lions, like saying they'd turned against him or something.

[Squeely]

Yeah, there's been so much fanart of Zira and Scar together as cubs that I think we all just started to assume the two grew up together. It seems more like Zira and her lionesses were rogues, traveling from place to place with no definite home. It's possible that Scar had offered them a home at Pride Rock, and Zira was furious when she returned to find Scar no longer there. Certainly adds some weight to Zira's side of the conflict.

[Panpardus]

Agreed; I actually like Zira more as a villain than Scar only because she's a more grounded villain in that her motivation is much easier to peg, which in turn makes it easier to both fear and empathize with her. Don't get me wrong, Scar is still untouchable purely because of the scale of his villainy (he's got a body count of at least five full-grown male lions now) and the fact that Jeremy Irons played him so well, but it's really hard to come up with a compelling reason as to why and how Scar became Scar, and cartoon franchise still has never really tossed us anything, so he seems almost 'too bad to be true'.

I happen to have the 'luxury' of what I think is relative clarity only because I didn't really discover fanart until around the time The Lion Guard was announced, and all I had were the films themselves growing up. Thus, Scar and Zira growing up together was never really something that crossed my mind or made much sense to me in the first place. Plus, now that I have my whole theory with regards to an overall timeline (that still holds up pretty well so far) I'm even more convinced that there was a pretty stark age gap between the two.

[Squeely]

I was looking at Lion King fanart when I first stepped foot on ye olde Internet in 1998. I've seen a ton of art of Scar and Zira together as cubs, and I feel like it isn't just my experience. I feel like it's one of the most common subjects of TLK art.

I'm really digging how our perceptions have been flipped on their head. There's just something so cool about assuming something was one way for 18 years, then discovering a whole new possibility.

[Carl]

[quote="SimbasGuard"]I enjoyed that aspect as well and even though it requires reading in to what Zira actually said. I think her comment "Scar and I were close. Very close." Hints very heavily (To Me anyway) that Nuka is Indeed Scar's son. I think it is very possible that Scar and Zira had a relationship during Mufasa's reign and that Scar did not bring Zira to The Pride Lands until he became King.[/quote]
While I agree that this theory could make sense and would make for a great fan fiction, her line didn't imply anything of the sort to me, in large part because of Rafiki repeatedly referring to them as "Zira's family." In explaining Zira to the Guard, she would definitely be taken more seriously and as a bigger threat if she were Scar's mate at any point, and therefore it's not information that Rafiki would withhold from them. His wording very precisely infers that Nuka is not Scar's cub to me, which fits perfectly with Scar's character as shown in the films imo, because in spite of the deleted scene and TLKoB, I really can't see Scar as someone who'd be interested romantically or sexually in anyone or anything. Sure, he and Zira had some kind of history, that much is obvious, but I think her love for him was unrequited. That could definitely make her more determined to avenge him as she feels cheated out of ever having the chance to finally win him over.

[quote="Squeely"]Yeah, there's been so much fanart of Zira and Scar together as cubs that I think we all just started to assume the two grew up together. It seems more like Zira and her lionesses were rogues, traveling from place to place with no definite home. It's possible that Scar had offered them a home at Pride Rock, and Zira was furious when she returned to find Scar no longer there. Certainly adds some weight to Zira's side of the conflict.[/quote]
Honestly this kind of baffles me, as I always saw that art and thought it was weird. Zira's obviously younger than Scar/Mufasa and I always just assumed that she showed up sometime after Simba's exile.