Does this movie imply that you can't escape your destiny?

[TheLionPrince]

It's simple and easy enough to understand that Simba was predestined to become the future king, and while he tried to run from his responsibilities only to negatively affect his family and homeland, he couldn't outrun what would be his ultimate fate. This is important to bring up because films like Zootopia encourage their viewers that you can do anything you want to do, and most likely our parents encouraged this upon us but we idolize a film that may tell us the opposite. So, what are your thoughts on it?

[Elton John]

Considering he was super duper excited to be king (so much that he sang a song about it) and that the he the only reason why he left was because of extreme guilt over something he was tricked into thinking he had done i'd say he only escaped destiny because he was forced to.

So i'd say that wasn't the message.

[Amur_Tiger]

Well, sorta? I think it'd be more accurate to say it's 'you shouldn't run away from your responsibilities/potential' which has some important differences compared to what you're saying.

Firstly it doesn't subscribe to the inevitability of the outcome, Simba can and did resist the call to return to the Pridelands, there were negative consequences associated with that but Simba didn't face those directly.

Secondly I don't believe that the consequences were supposed to be a Karmic punishment for Simba's failure to take the throne, that was related to Scar's decisions. Even when talking to Mufasa-clouds there's no mention about how bad stuff is happening because Simba hadn't taken the throne it's all about how Simba is more then what he's become, which is to say that Simba's not living up to his potential.

As for Zootopia I think the 'try anything' tagline is a fairly vapid distraction from the more meaningful message about making assumptions about people and how you shouldn't do it. This could be because right before going to see Zootopia I was listening to 'The Climb' by Anatoli Boukreev & G. Weston DeWalt which is all about the negative consequences of people who want to try everything, like climb the tallest mountain in the world. This doesn't mean you should avoid trying new things of course but pick ones that fit your skillset, expand your skillset over time and understand that in reality everything isn't possible.

[Ultra Fox]

I think it's more a lesson in responsibility than YOU CAN'T CHANGE FATE.

[Arbystrider]

This is important to bring up because films like Zootopia encourage their viewers that you can do anything you want to do, and most likely our parents encouraged this upon us but we idolize a film that may tell us the opposite. So, what are your thoughts on it?

My thought is that Disney wants to incorporate doublethink into society.

Brings us that much closer to an Orwellian reality.

1984? Yeah right, man. That's a typo. Orwell is here now. He's livin' large.

I think it's more a lesson in responsibility than YOU CAN'T CHANGE FATE.

Being born as the future king (ie, made responsible simply by default) is the same thing as the pre-written fate/destiny issue that OP is bringing up. They are not different issues in the context of this movie.

[KopsTheTerminator]

I highly doubt the film was about accepting your 'destiny'. There's no such thing. The thing is, he always did want to be king but after the stampede he became traumatised and grief-stricken considering not only did his father die after such a stressful event but he also thought he was the cause of his death, and then was raised into a terrible philosophy that encourages you to ignore all your problems because it's the easier thing to do. It's more about facing your problems and issues so you can move on with your life, and also about being responsible (and possibly less selfish? Considering if Simba refused to act just because he was scared the pride would die under Scar's rule.)

Also honestly that's not exactly the message I got from Zootopia when it comes to 'trying everything' (I can't remember the lyrics of that song, I'm talking about the moral). I thought that it aknowledged that sometimes you have some limitations (either physical or societal) but you should regardless try all you can do before giving up on something you really like. It's actually an approach I really liked about the film.

[Squeely]

It doesn't really seem to be about destiny to me. It's more about not just responsibility, but also recovering from PTSD and overcoming fears in the face of adversity. And how accomplished you feel when you finally are able to reach those goals.

[Gaze]

yeah, I agree that it's very important to remember that Simba always wanted to be king when he was younger. he wasn't specifically running away from his responsibilities because he didn't want to fulfill them, but rather because he was escaping his trauma and avoiding confrontation with the loved ones he had been tricked into believing he'd betrayed (by being "responsible" for Mufasa's death).

it would have been a different situation if he'd never shown any interest in being king at all.

still, it is interesting to consider that if this had been the case, there would be an imperative for him to become king despite not having any desire to do so. otherwise, his whole pride would perish under Scar's rule. if we're supposed to be interpreting that as a moral message, I think it is more of a metaphor for taking care of your loved ones/family/those who need you, whereas the Zootopia message applies more to pursuing a passion or career....and I don't really see why those things need to be mutually exclusive. seems like there are quite a few situations where you can satisfy your responsibilities and still aim for other unrelated goals.

but yeah, the message of Zootopia isn't actually just to shoot for the stars and accomplish all your dreams, IMO....it's definitely made clear that "we all have limitations," not everything is possible, and not everything is going to work out....but you still might as well try and work towards your goals because you might be able to make it work....or w/e

sorry if none of this makes sense, I am barely conscious over here people

[gothprincesskiara]

ok im very surprised you dont see the bigger picture of TLK all together here , first off I would not bring Zootopia into this topic and I will explain why after what im about to say. First off TLK was done and made to express a story the life of a lion. Now lets not forget animal behavior here, two male lions will battle over territory and kill for the right to lead if they have to, Scar did just that, but of course they made scar be evil and blind by jealousy, which works out just fine for the film, now the bigger message I have seen in TLK growing up and to this day is the importance of the circle of life, think about that for a minute. TLK has nothing to do with chasing a dream or changing your fate like the movie brave, animals in real life don't have dreams, they dont think like we humans do. A gazelle does not dream of wanting to walk on is hind legs and work for a company, Animals in real life have INSTINCTS! there mind is set on the circle of life and the circle of life only, TLK doesn't exactly fallow the rules but it still tells the story of the circle of life, Simba was reminded by Mufasa "you must take your place in the circle of life, if he had continued living the Hakuna Matata life, the circle of life would have been broken forever. So the reason why you should not bring Zootopia into this is because Zootopia was done in a human version of human life but with animals all shapes and sizes, they went against the reality of animal life like alot of animals movies have done, and its does not fallow the circle of life rules, and I love the song try everything because it reminded me to keep going on the path im persuing. do see my point with this?

[Amur_Tiger]

While I agree with you goth that the movie isn't about being unable to escape your destiny some of the points you're making are a bit exaggerated. Certainly animal behaviors and roles play a part in TLK but on a few points for both story and Disney reasons ( keeping it PG ) they tone things down.

1. Infanticide among lions, this wouldn't have just killed Simba as they tried to in the movie but also Nala ( with one possible exception )

2. Polygamy among lions, Mufasa ( or perhaps Scar ) would have sired cubs with all available lionesses, Nala's parentage would Safarina + Mufasa/Scar.

3. Hostility of everything ( Warthogs and Meerkats included ) towards lion cubs.

All of these adjustments made a fair bit of sense to help put together the story, but it should be clear that TLK isn't purely an expression of a possible story arc for a lion.

As to the dreaming vs instincts of animals, this is also pretty exaggerated. In a literal sense big cats do dream and there's a lot more to them then simple instincts, there's a lot of learned behavior and memory guiding their actions as well. Cats actually have superior short term memory to people and there's plenty of accounts of big cats picking up peculiar habits based off learning and accounts of them planning revenge against specific individuals. You're correct in saying they don't think like humans do but make no mistake animals do think and process information, but how they react and process this is colored by the sort of animal they are and their individual personality.

All in all I don't think it's wrong to look for messages in TLK that have meaning in our human lives, though I agree that it's not about inevitable destiny. You might make the case that there's a message about living up to your potential and hard work in there vs being a Hakuna Matata slacker but even that's saying something fairly different about free will then the idea of inevitable destiny.