Zira's loyalty to Scar Theories?

[Titanic-Wyvern]

This was inspired by a discussion I had with another TLK fan over on dA last night (it was a cool discussion!) and it got me thinking. Just why is Zira is loyal to Scar, even though he's dead and when things completely fall apart for her at the end of the movie?

Personally, I think that Zira and her Followers were like a cult that Scar brought up, which I wouldn't put past him to do. After all, he is a pretty good liar, as well and intelligent and rather charismatic. Plus it would make sense, as though the Hyenas were loyal to him and his main way of keeping everyone in line like he wanted, it wouldn't hurt to have some lioness back up as well.

But with Zira... I personally think that Scar manipulated her the most out of all of them, seeing how ruthless and tough she was which was what he needed, as kind of like an enforcer for his rule. Plus that and she was also one hell of a delusional fangirl for him. :T Either that or Stockholm Syndrome, which I wouldn't be surprised if that was what happened, as it has been documented heavily and it would explain why Zira is so loyal to Scar, even after everything fell apart at the end of the movie.

But my rambling aside, what are your theories on Zira's undying loyalty to Scar? I'm rather curious and would like to hear about it.

[Elton John]

My theory is that originally zira was to be scars mate with kovu being their son. One of the higher ups at Disney told them to change kovu being scars son cause that would make Kiara and kovu cousins.

Oddly enough, it is never explained just how directly related Simba and nala are. I just assume that nalas dad died before the events of the first movie.

[TheLionPrince]

My theory is that originally zira was to be scars mate with kovu being their son. One of the higher ups at Disney told them to change kovu being scars son cause that would make Kiara and kovu cousins.

It's not a theory. It's a purely reported fact that took place in the story development phase during the making of the movie.

One potentially racy element to the vid is that Scar’s spawn tries to woo Aisha. Scar and Simba were brothers, of course, [sic] and Dish hears the subject of potentially incestuous cartoon lions has been a topic of heated discussion between top Disney execs.

Also, director Darrell Rooney confirmed himself that Michael Eisner suggested to change Kiara and Kovu from being cousins so they had to revise Zira's character: http://tinyurl.com/ln9mbzu

[Elton John]

Interesting, still I have to wonder just how directly related simba and nala were. Nalas mom is sarafina but nala never mentions mufasa being her dad in any way.

[SimbasGuard]

I think Scar and Zira had more that just a leader, flower relationship. I actually believe Nuka (and only Nuka) is Scar's son. For me that easily explains Zira's obsessive devotion to Scar.

As for Simba And Nala. The short version of my FAN THEORY is this. Sarafina was originally from a different Pride. When Sarafina's husband was killed, the pregnant Sarafina fled to the Pride Lands and joined Mufasa's Pride.

[Elton John]

I accept that theory as it sounds more logical than them being closely related.

It's never even implied that Nala is mufasas daughter

[Carl]

Oddly enough, it is never explained just how directly related Simba and nala are. I just assume that nalas dad died before the events of the first movie.

To this, Disney has said that Nala's father was not included because there was no use for such a character and they did not think that people watching the movie would notice his absence, since the movie did not focus on her. Therefore, according to canon, Simba and Nala aren't directly related, for they were not intended to be. As for fan theories, her father dying before the first movie's timeline is logical.

My thoughts on Zira are a bit convoluted, I guess. So I want to specify, in the canon universe, I go with what has been said, that Zira was essentially a crazy fangirl. The cult theory fits with this as well. She was a devout follower of Scar who wanted to be his mate. I believe for the canon events, as I personally believe Scar was dead before Kovu's birth based on his and Vitani's age in reference to Kiara's, that Zira either saw the resemblance to Scar in Kovu and decided it was a sign from her lost "god" (not implying she truly thought of Scar as a god, but she did seem to worship him and the whole "kings of the past" thing is kind of ancestor-worshipy to begin with, and he wasn't her lover, Scar seems incapable of loving anything other than himself) and decided that Kovu was the chosen one, OR she had a hallucination from grief that Scar had returned to her (not unlike Simba's encounter with Mufasa's ghost) in which "Scar" actually hand-picked Kovu... but that all of it is a result of her insanity and devotion to him. It could even be like when people "fall in love" with celebrities or extremely charismatic leaders, they convince themselves that their love is requited even if the subject of their affection doesn't even know they exist. For example, many people get jealous with rage when a favourite celebrity who they say they were going to one day marry gets hitched with someone else. I've seen people act like spurned exes over this, they had really convinced themselves they could be with this person. Stalkers have a similar mentality, not that I'd call Zira a stalker. This kind of unrequited love is highly possible here, I think.

BUT all that aside, I have a totally different theory I use for my fanfics because it's just fun.

In that theory, Mufasa is the son of Ahadi and his first mate, and is thus entitled to the throne before all others. Uru is a replacement as Ahadi's queen because his first mate died during childbirth or while Mufasa was very young. Scar is the result of this new union between Ahadi and Uru, and this is why he is second in line for the throne. So, what does this have to do with Zira? I'm getting there, and it's going to be fun. It's fun for me to write, anyway.

So one day, in Scar's youth, Uru is doing a border patrol when she encounters a male rogueㅡshe fatally wounds him, but not before he gets what he wanted from her. Physically and emotionally hurt and exhausted, Uru returns home only to later discover that she is pregnant. The result of this rape is Zira, who, having no relation to Ahadi, has no claim to the throne. Growing up, due to the circumstances around her birth, Uru has little to do with her, and Zira grows bitter. She becomes even more so the more she sees Uru happy with her princes, and Zira begins to covet their positions a bit. Ahadi, being a busy king, doesn't spend much time with Zira either, and Mufasa, being busily learning to be king doesn't have time to give her whether he wanted to or not. Most of the pride feels awkward around Zira and so they have little interaction with her and it is only Scar who really seems to see her as more than the consequences of a horrible act of violence. She naturally becomes attached to him for this. But as time goes on, Zira pines more and more for the throne, and being so madly desirous, she begins to see her half-brother as something more than a supportive friend and sibling, she begins to see him as the key to becoming queen and her fascination deepens.

In her twisted mind, having the throne, and the spotlight that goes with it, would make up for all of the neglect she's endured, and, not being related directly to Ahadi, she'd have to marry in to get the throne. By this point, Mufasa already has Sarabi, and he isn't all that close to Zira in the first place. The problem is, Scar (who still isn't officially "Scar" at this point) still loves his brother and his mother and his father too, despite knowing how they are cold and distant with Zira, and as we know, Mufasa has to die or abdicate for Taka to get the throne. So Zira sets a trap in which she frames a hyena (one of Scar's friends) for Ahadi's murder, after having killed the hyena herself. Scar feels anger at both Ahadi and the hyena, and Mufasa, as his first act as king, banishes the whole hyena clan for their supposed transgressions. A wedge begins forming between the two and Zira continues "confiding" in Scar and manipulating him. Eventually, Zira slays Uru in the heat of an argument turned violent and is banished from the lands, receiving her ear notch in the process. She lashes out at Taka as she leaves for not stopping Mufasa from exiling her, thus leaving him with his scar. Mufasa and Scar fight about this all the same and eventually things get to where they are at the start of the film. With their parents and the hyenas gone, and Mufasa turning his back on Zira, whom Scar loves as the sister she is to him, they begin to fight more and more, and Scar becomes more desirous of the throne, wanting to reclaim it for Zira, and for his parents, feeling that they would disapprove of Mufasa's reign of exiling people he cares about. Thus the movie stuff ends up happening and Scar lets Zira and the hyenas return to the Pride Lands, and Zira believes this makes her Scar's mate and queen, while he doesn't see it as such since she is his half-sister.

This theory isn't 100% worked out though, and is NOT what I believe to be canon. It's just a fun theory for my fics.

[Titanic-Wyvern]

I think Scar and Zira had more that just a leader, flower relationship. I actually believe Nuka (and only Nuka) is Scar's son. For me that easily explains Zira's obsessive devotion to Scar.

As for Simba And Nala. The short version of my FAN THEORY is this. Sarafina was originally from a different Pride. When Sarafina's husband was killed, the pregnant Sarafina fled to the Pride Lands and joined Mufasa's Pride.

While I personally don't think Scar and Zira had much of a relationship outside of Leader/Follower, and I don't think that Nuka is Scar's son (I have Nuka's father be Ahadi's brother, so the two are related but only as cousins), that is a pretty good theory!

Plus that theory is a pretty good one! I kind of think that Sarafina and Nala came from another pride, as Nala was betrothed to Simba and they wanted to make sure everything would go smoothly (though it doesn't explain why they don't leave the Pridelands after Scar becomes king).

I accept that theory as it sounds more logical than them being closely related.

It's never even implied that Nala is mufasas daughter

I do agree, hey101hey. SimbaGuards' theory is a lot more sound and logical then Nala and Simba being related. Plus like you said, it is never even implied that Mufasa is Nala's father.

And like TheLionPrince said, hey101hey:

My theory is that originally zira was to be scars mate with kovu being their son. One of the higher ups at Disney told them to change kovu being scars son cause that would make Kiara and kovu cousins.

It's not a theory. It's a purely reported fact that took place in the story development phase during the making of the movie.

One potentially racy element to the vid is that Scar’s spawn tries to woo Aisha. Scar and Simba were brothers, of course, [sic] and Dish hears the subject of potentially incestuous cartoon lions has been a topic of heated discussion between top Disney execs.

Also, director Darrell Rooney confirmed himself that Michael Eisner suggested to change Kiara and Kovu from being cousins so they had to revise Zira's character: http://tinyurl.com/ln9mbzu

Kiara and Kovu were going to be cousins at one point during the development of Simba's Pride, but it was changed after they realized that it would be incest (which it wouldn't have been too bad, I guess, as they would have been only second cousins then.). Plus since Kovu wasn't Scar's son anymore, they also had to change Zira from being his mate to just his follower.

Oddly enough, it is never explained just how directly related Simba and nala are. I just assume that nalas dad died before the events of the first movie.

To this, Disney has said that Nala's father was not included because there was no use for such a character and they did not think that people watching the movie would notice his absence, since the movie did not focus on her. Therefore, according to canon, Simba and Nala aren't directly related, for they were not intended to be. As for fan theories, her father dying before the first movie's timeline is logical.

My thoughts on Zira are a bit convoluted, I guess. So I want to specify, in the canon universe, I go with what has been said, that Zira was essentially a crazy fangirl. The cult theory fits with this as well. She was a devout follower of Scar who wanted to be his mate. I believe for the canon events, as I personally believe Scar was dead before Kovu's birth based on his and Vitani's age in reference to Kiara's, that Zira either saw the resemblance to Scar in Kovu and decided it was a sign from her lost "god" (not implying she truly thought of Scar as a god, but she did seem to worship him and the whole "kings of the past" thing is kind of ancestor-worshipy to begin with, and he wasn't her lover, Scar seems incapable of loving anything other than himself) and decided that Kovu was the chosen one, OR she had a hallucination from grief that Scar had returned to her (not unlike Simba's encounter with Mufasa's ghost) in which "Scar" actually hand-picked Kovu... but that all of it is a result of her insanity and devotion to him. It could even be like when people "fall in love" with celebrities or extremely charismatic leaders, they convince themselves that their love is requited even if the subject of their affection doesn't even know they exist. For example, many people get jealous with rage when a favourite celebrity who they say they were going to one day marry gets hitched with someone else. I've seen people act like spurned exes over this, they had really convinced themselves they could be with this person. Stalkers have a similar mentality, not that I'd call Zira a stalker. This kind of unrequited love is highly possible here, I think.

BUT all that aside, I have a totally different theory I use for my fanfics because it's just fun.

In that theory, Mufasa is the son of Ahadi and his first mate, and is thus entitled to the throne before all others. Uru is a replacement as Ahadi's queen because his first mate died during childbirth or while Mufasa was very young. Scar is the result of this new union between Ahadi and Uru, and this is why he is second in line for the throne. So, what does this have to do with Zira? I'm getting there, and it's going to be fun. It's fun for me to write, anyway.

So one day, in Scar's youth, Uru is doing a border patrol when she encounters a male rogueㅡshe fatally wounds him, but not before he gets what he wanted from her. Physically and emotionally hurt and exhausted, Uru returns home only to later discover that she is pregnant. The result of this rape is Zira, who, having no relation to Ahadi, has no claim to the throne. Growing up, due to the circumstances around her birth, Uru has little to do with her, and Zira grows bitter. She becomes even more so the more she sees Uru happy with her princes, and Zira begins to covet their positions a bit. Ahadi, being a busy king, doesn't spend much time with Zira either, and Mufasa, being busily learning to be king doesn't have time to give her whether he wanted to or not. Most of the pride feels awkward around Zira and so they have little interaction with her and it is only Scar who really seems to see her as more than the consequences of a horrible act of violence. She naturally becomes attached to him for this. But as time goes on, Zira pines more and more for the throne, and being so madly desirous, she begins to see her half-brother as something more than a supportive friend and sibling, she begins to see him as the key to becoming queen and her fascination deepens.

In her twisted mind, having the throne, and the spotlight that goes with it, would make up for all of the neglect she's endured, and, not being related directly to Ahadi, she'd have to marry in to get the throne. By this point, Mufasa already has Sarabi, and he isn't all that close to Zira in the first place. The problem is, Scar (who still isn't officially "Scar" at this point) still loves his brother and his mother and his father too, despite knowing how they are cold and distant with Zira, and as we know, Mufasa has to die or abdicate for Taka to get the throne. So Zira sets a trap in which she frames a hyena (one of Scar's friends) for Ahadi's murder, after having killed the hyena herself. Scar feels anger at both Ahadi and the hyena, and Mufasa, as his first act as king, banishes the whole hyena clan for their supposed transgressions. A wedge begins forming between the two and Zira continues "confiding" in Scar and manipulating him. Eventually, Zira slays Uru in the heat of an argument turned violent and is banished from the lands, receiving her ear notch in the process. She lashes out at Taka as she leaves for not stopping Mufasa from exiling her, thus leaving him with his Scar. Mufasa and Scar fight about this all the same and eventually things get to where they are at the start of the film. With their parents and the hyenas gone, and Mufasa turning his back on Zira, whom Scar loves as the sister she is to him, they begin to fight more and more, and Scar becomes more desirous of the throne, wanting to reclaim it for Zira, and for his parents, feeling that they would disapprove of Mufasa's reign of exiling people he cares about. Thus the movie stuff ends up happening and Scar lets Zira and the hyenas return to the Pride Lands, and Zira believes this makes her Scar's mate and queen, while he doesn't see it as such since she is his half-sister.

This theory isn't 100% worked out though, and is NOT what I believe to be canon. It's just a fun theory for my fics.

^That is pretty much what I think happened. Zira was nothing more then a delusional fangirl of Scar's, plus being in his little lioness cult. Due to her slipping mind, she thinks that Scar has come back to her and 'hand-picked' Kovu as his heir (plus in her mind, Kovu looks like him). And then starts the whole happenings of SP.

...And dude, that is one cool fanfic theory! O.O Though like you said, it's only for fun in your fanfics, I think it is pretty original, not to mention awesome.

[Elton John]

To be honest I don't know much about the characters outside of the first two movies. I just learned what a kopa was last year and that scars real name is taka.

[Adofo]

I think Scar and Zira had more that just a leader, flower relationship. I actually believe Nuka (and only Nuka) is Scar's son. For me that easily explains Zira's obsessive devotion to Scar.

As for Simba And Nala. The short version of my FAN THEORY is this. Sarafina was originally from a different Pride. When Sarafina's husband was killed, the pregnant Sarafina fled to the Pride Lands and joined Mufasa's Pride.

That's what I've thought too. And One thing that supports the first part of the theory is since Kovu isn't Scar's biological son, and Vitani doesn't seem to be much older than Kovu at all! So they seem like they'd be litter mates. So Nuka IS Scar's only son. As for Sarafina, there isn't too much solid evidence for, but I've always thought the same cuz it makes the most sense. Unless Mufasa allowed some rouge to come in and shortly after leave. But that doesn't really sound like something he would do. Scar, I can see it a little more. Which explains Vitani and Kovu. But if Mufasa was Nala's dad, I doubt they'd let their son marry hiss half sister. Let alone set it up. And if Scar was her dad, now this may only be considered maybe like semi-canon, but in the Musical, Scar is interested in Nala(Scar you pervert) so that would seem pretty weird if she was his daughter. BUT the only reason that was a part of the musical was because it was planned for the movie, but got scrapped. So yeah, her coming to the Pridelands when she just became pregnant and was taken in is probably the best bet. And also, she may have been an old childhood friend of Sarabi or Mufasa or both! Either way, out of all the theories I've seen, these both make the most sense. At least in my opinion.