Election Day 2012

[Azdgari]

Well, then we just wasted a a few pages, I guess.

[Woeler]

I am not interested in climate change, really not my profession. I am going to watch the live shows. Laterz debaterz.

FORWARD

[Regulus]

Okay, let's go back to middle school.

[quote="wikipedia"]Mercury is the innermost planet in the Solar System. It is also the smallest, and its orbit is the most eccentric (that is, the least perfectly circular) of the eight planets.[a] It orbits the Sun once in about 88 Earth days, completing three rotations about its axis for every two orbits. The planet is named after the Roman god Mercury, the messenger to the gods.

Mercury's surface is heavily cratered and similar in appearance to Earth's Moon, indicating that it has been geologically inactive for billions of years. Due to its near lack of an atmosphere to retain heat, Mercury's surface experiences the steepest temperature gradient of all the planets, ranging from a very cold 100 K at night to a very hot 700 K during the day.[/quote]

[quote="wikipedia"]Venus is shrouded by an opaque layer of highly reflective clouds of sulfuric acid, preventing its surface from being seen from space in visible light. It has the densest atmosphere of the four terrestrial planets, consisting mostly of carbon dioxide. The atmospheric pressure at the planet's surface is 92 times that of Earth's. With a mean surface temperature of 735 K (462 °C; 863 °F), Venus is by far the hottest planet in the Solar System.[/quote]

[quote="wikipedia"]An atmosphere (New Latin atmosphaera, created in the 17th century from Greek ἀτμός [atmos] "vapor"[1] and σφαῖρα [sphaira] "sphere"[2]) is a layer of gases that may surround a material body of sufficient mass,[3] and that is held in place by the gravity of the body. An atmosphere may be retained for a longer duration, if the gravity is high and the atmosphere's temperature is low. Some planets consist mainly of various gases, but only their outer layer is their atmosphere.[/quote]

[quote="wikipedia"]The concentration of carbon dioxide (CO2) in Earth's atmosphere has reached 395 ppm (parts per million) as of June 2012[1][2] and rose by 2.0 ppm/yr during 2000–2009. [2][3] This current concentration is substantially higher than the 280 ppm concentration present in pre-industrial times, with the increase largely attributed to anthropogenic sources.[4] Carbon dioxide is used in photosynthesis (in plants and other photoautotrophs), and is also a prominent greenhouse gas. Despite its relatively small overall concentration in the atmosphere, CO2 is an important component of Earth's atmosphere because it absorbs and emits infrared radiation at wavelengths of 4.26 µm (asymmetric stretching vibrational mode) and 14.99 µm (bending vibrational mode), thereby playing a role in the greenhouse effect.[5] The present level is higher than at any time during the last 800 thousand years,[6] and likely higher than in the past 20 million years.[7][/quote]

We are not entirely responsible for global warming. We are merely catalysts for the event. In a totally natural environment, the oceans regulate CO2.

[quote="wikipedia"]Ocean acidification is the name given to the ongoing decrease in the pH of the Earth's oceans, caused by the uptake of anthropogenic carbon dioxide (CO2) from the atmosphere.[1] About 30–40% of the carbon dioxide released by humans into the atmosphere dissolves into the oceans, rivers and lakes.[2][3][/quote]

[quote="wikipedia"]Ocean acidification, which like global climate change is driven by excessive levels of carbon dioxide, has been regarded by climate scientists as the "equally evil twin" of global climate change.[9][/quote]

The oceans still regulate CO2, but we emit much more than can be regulated. With only natural events, it wouldn't be an issue, and the fluctuation in the troposphere wouldn't be anywhere near as large.

The oceans absorb CO2, and when they do that the CO2 eventually gets back into the earth's crust. From there, it is emitted again in more than likely volcanic activity.

And as we industrialize more and more, the forests that are supposed to regulate CO2 on land are being depleted. So, essentially, what we're doing is throwing the system out of whack. We are causing climate change to happen more rapidly because of the CO2 in the atmosphere.

NASA supports this. The EPA supports this. You do not. Gee, I just don't know who I should believe.

[DGFone]

[quote="Regulus"]
NASA supports this. The EPA supports this. You do not. Gee, I just don't know who I should believe.[/quote]

Did you like... not read... anything I just said? Anything at all? You know, I'm not even going to repeat myself, just quote what you obviously missed.

[quote="DGFone"]

Climate Change IS NOT Global Warming. Climate change is what we are experiencing right now. Global Warming is the pseudoscience that first tried to explain climate change. And if you look at what is happening with the world, it doesn't match Global Warming predictions.
[/quote]

[quote="DGFone"]
Climate Change is how our activities effect the climate. We are only beginning to understand it, and the simplest way to describe what is currently being discovered is "the extremes get more extreme". Dry places will get drier, and wet places will get wetter.

There is loads of evidence for climate change. But Global Warming? Yeah, it's a myth, and a ridiculousn one. And to lump the two as one and the same is ignorant.
[/quote]

So in other words: I do agree with NASA and the EPA. They don't agree with Global Warming. They agree with Climate change.

[Regulus]

Global warming: the increase in Earth’s average surface temperature due to rising levels of greenhouse gases.

Climate change: a long-term change in the Earth’s climate, or of a region on Earth.

There is a difference. But they are both true for our time period. On average, Earth's temperatures are changing gradually: it's getting a little bit warmer. Yes, this is climate change. Yes, this is global warming.

The ice caps are not average. Average is average for the entire world.

[DGFone]

[quote="Regulus"]Global warming: the increase in Earth’s average surface temperature due to rising levels of greenhouse gases.

Climate change: a long-term change in the Earth’s climate, or of a region on Earth.

There is a difference. But they are both true for our time period. On average, Earth's temperatures are changing gradually: it's getting a little bit warmer. Yes, this is climate change. Yes, this is global warming.[/quote]

Yeah, let me correct you scientifically on that: Increase of greenhouses gases? True.
Greenhouse effect? Complete nonsense. If you want to know what is actually happening, you need to dive into a few textbooks. The greenhouse effect, despite its very common use in today's media, was one of the first things to be disproven. At least, what you hear in the media was disproven.

[Regulus]

Then explain why Venus is hotter than Mercury on average, even though it is farther away from the sun.

The idea that atmospheres hold in heat is not myth. It has not been disproven once.

I've written several essays on the subject of Global Warming before. I've done my research. You are wrong, plain and simple, and that's me trying to be nice.

[DGFone]

[quote="Regulus"]Then explain why Venus is hotter than Mercury on average, even though it is farther away from the sun.

The idea that atmospheres hold in heat is not myth. It has not been disproven once.

I've written several essays on the subject of Global Warming before. I've done my research. You are wrong, plain and simple, and that's me trying to be nice.[/quote]

Then how come our stratosphere has been cooling down, not heating up like all of these things are saying? I don't care what essays you wrote on global warming, I want to see your equations. Your science. How energy interacts with our atmosphere, and the ground.

Once again, I AM NOT DISAGREEING with climate change. But what I've seen disproven is the popular concept of 'greenhouse effect' ad global warming - that part is wrong.

So FFS, read what I am saying before disagreeing with me. I thought you knew better than that.

Here is exactly what I mean:
http://www.npr.org/2010/12/03/131785444 ... imate-Quiz

[Regulus]

Here it is, explained at a middle or high school school science level, provided by the NOAA.

http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/education/ ... Theory.pdf

You still haven't answered my question. How could Venus be hotter than Mercury, if not for its atmosphere which contains greenhouse gasses?

How could a thicker atmosphere not trap in more heat? You're asking for my equations, when you have no equations of your own, either.

And you have yet to provide a single source which states that global warming has been proved false.

[DGFone]

[quote="Regulus"]Here it is, explained at a middle or high school school science level, provided by the NOAA.
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/education/ ... Theory.pdf
You still haven't answered my question. How could Venus be hotter than Mercury, if not for its atmosphere which contains greenhouse gasses?
How could a thicker atmosphere not trap in more heat? You're asking for my equations, when you have no equations of your own, either.
And you have yet to provide a single source which states that global warming has been proved false.[/quote]

I recently took a class comparing the planets, so here is my answer, as taught by college professors:

Difference between Mercury and Venus: Venus has an atmosphere, Mercury has non at all. as for the greenhouse effect, here is why most people are wrong about it:

You know how much effect CO2 has on trapping heat? Close to none. The real effect comes primarily from these two: Water vapor and methane. Both of these have also increased with the industrial revolution. After all, natural gas is methane.

So while CO2 does a little bit of damage, most people are completely oblivious to the fact that it's like worrying about getting shot by a pistol in an army armed with machine guns. You want to cool the earth down? Lower H2O and methane emissions.

BTW, a bit of chemistry: What does your car produce when you drive it? You oxidize oil, a hydro-carbon. By products? CO2 (which people are afraid of) and H2O (which people don't mind). It's the water you should be afraid of...

Equation: HxCx (hydrocarbon) + O2 (atmospheric oxygen) = CO2 + H2O + heat (guess where that goes)