Kopa! {For kopa fans everywhere}

[Eli_Ayase]

[quote="UruSarabiNala"][quote="Tora"]Nope I just think he was never born. It's the perfect solution no?[/quote]
Haha. Let them have their fun, Tora. It's up to them what they believe.[/quote]
^ I agree with Uru....
---
I stay neutral on the Kopa thing. So don't bug me. I love the Kopa/Vitani ship though <3

[Kitva Hyperlink]

[quote="Tora"]Nope I just think he was never born. It's the perfect solution no?[/quote]
no, Tora...
Who here reads??
[quote="Longlivethequeen"]Anybody who disses kopa on this site will have to say that to my face and argue with me they will be prosicuted.[/quote]

[quote="Longlivethequeen"]{only kidding its a joke}[/quote]

Anyway, people believe different things, we all have different perspectives. No one can tell someone he didn't exist, no one can tell someone he did. If people want to believe something let them. So unless you give people valid evidence, then you can't convince anyone. If opinion Is to be changed, significant evidence is required to outweigh the oppositions evidence; But still people can be stubborn and believe only one thing, unless the other stairs them in the face. So it is pointless just posting 'Kopa doesn't exist' Because Kopa does exist.

Kopa is as real as Simba or Nala. Yes they may not be in real life, but they do exist in the imagination of some fans. Fans can believe whatever they want about characters like that. Yes there may be a couple of coincidental photos that fans found, some may be Photoshoped; but that is not a valid reason to prove to me that Simba is more real than Kopa. How would you feel if every time you mentioned Simba people Tell you he doesn't exist, he is just a character from a couple of movies, some comics and a couple of books. Because that is the position you put Kopa fans, like myself, in.

Finally, more doesn't mean more real. People can believe that, but that is there perspective. If there are 23 cookies in a jar, the cookies are just as real as if there was only 1. So why would you say just because Simba is in TLK, TLK2SP, TLK3(TLK1 1/2), TLK6NA and the comics and Kopa is only in TLK6NA that Simba is more Real than Kopa. It's just not right.

In conclution, Kopa and Simba are just as real as each other because they are all in people's heads and in some sort of literature or movie(or both in Simba's case). So if people are to believe something, they can believe it.

[quote="UruSarabiNala"][quote="Tora"]Nope I just think he was never born. It's the perfect solution no?[/quote]
Haha. Let them have their fun, Tora. It's up to them what they believe.[/quote]
I don't think he will listen. He never does on this case, I have told him countless times, so I guess I just pointlessly wrote a persuasive essay to try and prove a character existed to someone who believes elcewise.

[Tora]

Now to sound like a certain debater. I'll make a big long post when I get home. This is going to be fun.

[Kitva Hyperlink]

Better not be like woeler1

[TheLionPrince]

[quote="Kitva Hyperlink"]
Anyway, people believe different things, we all have different perspectives. No one can tell someone he didn't exist, no one can tell someone he did. If people want to believe something let them. So unless you give people valid evidence, then you can't convince anyone. If opinion Is to be changed, significant evidence is required to outweigh the oppositions evidence; But still people can be stubborn and believe only one thing, unless the other stairs them in the face. So it is pointless just posting 'Kopa doesn't exist' Because Kopa does exist.

Kopa is as real as Simba or Nala. Yes they may not be in real life, but they do exist in the imagination of some fans. Fans can believe whatever they want about characters like that. Yes there may be a couple of coincidental photos that fans found, some may be Photoshoped; but that is not a valid reason to prove to me that Simba is more real than Kopa. How would you feel if every time you mentioned Simba people Tell you he doesn't exist, he is just a character from a couple of movies, some comics and a couple of books. Because that is the position you put Kopa fans, like myself, in.

Finally, more doesn't mean more real. People can believe that, but that is there perspective. If there are 23 cookies in a jar, the cookies are just as real as if there was only 1. So why would you say just because Simba is in TLK, TLK2SP, TLK3(TLK1 1/2), TLK6NA and the comics and Kopa is only in TLK6NA that Simba is more Real than Kopa. It's just not right.

In conclution, Kopa and Simba are just as real as each other because they are all in people's heads and in some sort of literature or movie(or both in Simba's case). So if people are to believe something, they can believe it.[/quote]

The debate is not over whether Kopa is real or not. He is real, and does exist in The Lion King: Six New Adventures. However, his continuity was ignored (and eventually denied) from the movie universe as evident from what the filmmakers have said.

And if you want evidence, here's evidence:

[quote]Let's just end on the next generation. Here's Fluffy, Simba and Nala's cute little cub. Let's just end on Fluffy."[/quote]

The quote above was a direct quote heard on the audio comentary of TLK audio commentary first released in 1995. The filmmakers most likely weren't aware of the Kopa books, which were published a year before. If they were or weren't, their vision still remains that the cub at the end is genderless, and given a jokename, "Fluffy", not Kopa. With that quote alone, they denied The Lion King: Six New Adventures from the movie's continuity by stating Kopa is not the cub held up at the end.



If you look to the right of the article, you see that animator Andrew Collins is asked, "What's the major difference between this film and the original?" Collins answers, "It takes off where the first movie left us with a twist -- you think it's a king, but a queen!"

This quote again denies Kopa from the sequel's universe, which follows directly with the first movie's ending of the presentation. The queen he is refering to is Kiara, and now "Fluffy" has officially been recognized as Kiara. AGAIN NOT KOPA!

The matter of fact is that the book universe cannot interwine with the movie universe not only because the filmmakers denied them, but because the book universe contradicts itself, and cannot be one entity in itself.

[quote="Akril"] For instance, the book Friends in Need tells the story about how Mufasa met Zazu as a young lion and allowed Zazu do become his advisor after he helps Mufasa save Sarabi. This contradicts the TLK6NA story "A Tale of Two Brothers", which says that Zazu became Mufasa's advisor after Mufasa became king since Zazu's mother Zuzu was such an excellent advisor to Mufasa's father.[/quote]

Either you pick and choose which story you prefer to be in your personal canon, or deny both of the stories entirely. In Kopa's case, Zira and the Outsiders weren't thought of as characters when the book was published, and didn't exist within the book's stories. Likewise, the same with Kopa, and Simba's Pride makes it clear that Kiara is Simba's only child.

There's just no need for a child-muder to tie up whatever loose ends weren't tightened. In SP, it's made itself clear why Simba feels he has to protect Kiara when Nala tells her mate, "She's just like you when you were young." Looking back to the first movie, the dangers beyond the Pride Lands were hyena packs, but now in SP, it has worsened to vengeful Outsiders calling for Simba's blood. To add on this, a little bit of Freudism comes into play with his traumatized childhood of witnessing firsthand his father's death, and living with the guilt for many years given the nightmare sequence. With Zira and the Outsiders, allying themselves with Scar who caused this, and his agreement that Kiara is exactly like him as a cub, he has to overprotect her from experiencing the harsh life he had.

Also, if Kopa was murdered by Zira, Nala would be just as overprotective as Simba is, but it is shown she isn't. Finally, if Kopa was murdered, then, it makes no sense for Simba to send out a meerkat and a warthog to protect her daughter, when those animals can be easily killed by a lion. Simba would have upgraded the protection of Kiara if his first child was killed.

And if you are still not convinced, then, please click the spoiler. It even has a screenshot of how Kopa's creator envisioned his character's role in the movie universe, and since Tora is writing his book, this is mine own. Enjoy!

Spoiler: show

[quote="TheLionPrince"]It depends by what you mean by "real".

Is Kopa real as in he is a character found only in The Lion King: Six New Adventures and some German audio tapes? Or he is real as in is he is an existing film character?

He is a real character that appears in the Six New Adventures novel series, and here's a picture of him:


However, Kopa only exists in that particular book universe. He was indirectly denied by the original filmmakers on the audio commentary when they named the cub at the end, "Fluffy". Therefore, he is not the cub held up at the end so he is not an existing film character.

Fastforward some years later, Phil Weinstein (a storyboard director on The Lion King II) confirmed in an interview that the production crew had no knowledge of Kopa during the making of film. The full transcript of the interview can be found here. However, here's the main excerpt of what was said:

[quote="Phil Weinstein interview"]
Aniu: Are you familiar with Kopa, the original son of Simba and Nala? And if so, was there a reason you all
opted not to put him in The Lion King 2?
Phil: No…what was his name?
Aniu: Apparently his name was Kopa, and it was—I forget exactly where the fan knowledge comes from, because I’m not—
Skul: [interrupting] I can answer that. Kopa was the son of Simba and Nala in a series of books that were
published immediately after The Lion King. And there were six books total, all of them 100-­‐page kids books, but they all had Kopa in them.
Phil: Wow. No, I wasn’t aware of that.
Skul: Yeah. A bunch of people have been wondering why it was Kiara instead of Kopa in Lion King 2. And, I guess not even you know the answer.
Phil: No, you’re going to have to track down—gosh, I can’t even remember. Who was it…was it Darrell
Rooney that directed Lion King 2? Is that right? I think he was the one who ended up taking it to the finish
line.
Aniu: Okay.

[Note from Skul: Yes, Darrell Rooney was the director]

Phil: So you’ll have to find him or one of the writers and ask them. They might know.
Aniu: Okay. We’ll definitely have to track him down and eventually ask that question.[/quote]

Someone named KieranTheWolf (who I later found out to be SuperBabySimba, who was once a user here) contacted Alex Simmons, Kopa's creator, via email. Simmons admitted he was never contacted or involved with the sequel's filmmakers at all:



In conclusion, Kopa is not an existing film character as he was never known onto the filmmakers therefore no hint of his existence is made in the film universe. The Lion King II makes it clear that Kiara is the cub at the end of the film, and in the end, she became "Fluffy". However, he is a real character that exists in an alternate universe where Simba has a son.[/quote]

[Kitva Hyperlink]

I have read the post in the spoiler before. You are arguing the wrong thing, because I totaly agree with you. It has been my opinion all along. My post was directed at the people who didn't believe that Kopa was real; Mostly Tora. TLK6NA and the Movies are two completely different things almost. But the way I rather the story is how Zira apparently 'kills' Kopa, and he runs away.

[Kopalover]

Kopa isn't real. As much as Simba and Nala aren't real.
They're just characters from books or movies.

Though, my name does say I'm a 'Kopa lover' so you can tell that I do love Kopa indeed. I have my own Kopa story, but so does everyone else. I will not get into that. But everyone needs to start realizing that in the end, they're all fictional characters. Doesn't matter if they aren't in the movies or in the books or whatever. We can still imagine they are, right? I don't mind the people who don't like Kopa as much as I don't mind the people who do. Whether you believe in him or not, he's still not real.
I personally believe.

[longlivethequeen]

Its ok everybody has there own idea i mean im not the one to put people off of their theories

[morning-star]

I'd like to think he did exist and was killed before kiara came along (not worked out a 'how he was killed' and I'm not convinced by the whole 'zira did it thing' as she was exiled before he would have been born and I bet she stayed away from the pride lands for a good while at that point.), but that's just my opinion, with that theory it means kovu is at least a good few months to a year older than kiara though....

[SlayerOfLight]

I'm not here to ruin the day of some Kopa fans but I really recommend anyone who still thinks Kopa is canon, to READ TheLionPrince's post carefully once, or maybe even twice if necessary. It'll save me alot of work trying to convince some of you that Kopa does NOT excist in the movie universe.

facts: Kopa was never mentioned in Simba's pride, so there is no single piece of evidence that he is canon in the movies. The creators also CONFIRMED that the cub at the end of the first movie (Fluffy) is not Kopa, and was later given the identity of Kiara. That's why they even showed the TLK's ending scene of Fluffy's birthday celebration in the trailer of Simba's pride.


p-s It's ok if you like Kopa, but just get over the fact that he doesn't excist in the movie universe. He only excists in the 6 new adventures books.

kthxbye.