How to identify a baby cub's gender?

[SuperBabySimba]

Some say there is no way that the cub in the end of The Lion King is a female. I must disgree.

1.) The black marks behind the ears have nothing to do with a gender;

Baby Simba - a boy - didn't have them but they appeared later.
Baby Kiara - a girl - didn't have them and they didn't appear later.
Baby Fluffy had them but its gender hasn't been verified by its creators. But judging by Simba, Kiara, Sarabi, Mufasa and Scar, it could be either.

Adult Nala doesn't have them.
But adult Sarabi has them.
Adult Mufasa has them.
But adult Scar doesn't have them. And Mufasa and Scar are even brothers.

SUMMARY; It's not about gender, it's about if the cub happens to inherit the marks or not and if it does, they may or may not have them as a baby. Hence, Simba eventually had them because both of his parents had them. It's not about gender.

2.) The whiskars are about gender, it is even said on the commentary track. But it is also implied that it's so only because they had to draw each whiskar on a seperate blank paper, which must have been ridiculously frustrating. But notice how none of the babies we see has any whiskars, thus we can not tell which gender they are.

3.) The fur colour is usually golden brown or dark brown with males while females are some shade of sandy brown. But since there are various fur colours going around, the colour is not a 100% certain identification way.

So there is no way to identify for sure, the gender of a lion baby in the films. Is there?

The only way to identify the baby's gender would be the genitals which of course has been ditched from the animation views but I'm sure the characters still see them, which is hhow they're the only ones who can know which gender a baby is. Oh, and to them there must also be a certain kind of scent, I'd suppose.

I also don't think Fluffy (the cun in the end) ever had a gender in its creator's view. There was likely no sequel in plans until the popularity of the film, so the cub was there simply to show us that the circle of life starts anew with a new generation. This seems to be the case even in 2003 as they still called it just Fluffy and didn't verify its gender. Leaving Kiara, the daughter from the sequel movie to be its final identity as it's all in the movie universe.

[Akril]

Not to nitpick, but Mufasa doesn't have ear rims, but Scar actually does, they're just different than all the other characters that have them and hard to see in certain lighting. They blend in with the dark fur inside his ears and look a little like cub Kovu's and "teen" Simba's ear rims:


Incidentally, both Scar and adult Kovu are drawn with prominent narrow ear rims in some book illustrations and clip art.

But back to the topic at hand, the cub at the end of TLK is quite an anomaly. Baby Simba has no coloring at all on his ears and spots on his head and back, and the cub at the end of TLK has coloring in his ears, ear rims and no spots. I actually came up with a half-serious theory that if male cubs have the "gene" for ear rims, they're born without them, then gain them as cubs and lose them as adults, while females have them as babies, lose them as cubs and gain them as adults. This is based on my observations of Simba and Vitani, as well as the assumption that the TLK cub is Kiara and she was presented again a few weeks later (for some reason) and that Vitani is somewhat older than her.

Before TLK, I'm sure the fan consensus was that the cub was male since it was the same golden color as Simba and Mufasa, and in TLK. Judginig by the two examples we saw in TLK the trend seemed to be that male cubs look like their father while female cubs look like their mother (a little like Lady and the Tramp's puppies -- there's actually a TV Tropes page on a subject similar to this). However, SP flipped this whole idea on its head, making Kiara a golden female with a completely different design than the TLK cub (not to mention making her a lot bigger and giving her irises -- neither baby Simba nor the TLK cub had irises, just big, cute pupils).

I think the only definite way to tell the gender of an infant cub would be to see whether its paler belly fur connects with the fur on its chin or not. If it does, then it's a female, if not, then it's a male. The problem is that baby TLK cubs have such short necks that it's practically impossible to see this.

[SuperBabySimba]

Edited to my original post:

I also don't think Fluffy (the cun in the end) ever had a gender in its creator's view. There was likely no sequel in plans until the popularity of the film, so the cub was there simply to show us that the circle of life starts anew with a new generation. This seems to be the case even in 2003 as they still called it just Fluffy and didn't verify its gender. Leaving Kiara, the daughter from the sequel movie to be its final identity as it's all in the movie universe.

[SuperBabySimba]

[quote="Akril"]I actually came up with a half-serious theory that if male cubs have the "gene" for ear rims, they're born without them, then gain them as cubs and lose them as adults, while females have them as babies, lose them as cubs and gain them as adults. This is based on my observations of Simba and Vitani, as well as the assumption that the TLK cub is Kiara and she was presented again a few weeks later (for some reason) and that Vitani is somewhat older than her.[/quote]

Nice theory, but Nala didn't have them as adult. : D

EDIT:// Damnit, sorry for the double post. I was trying to edit this to the previous post but was in a hurry and not thinking.

[Akril]

[quote="SuperBabySimba"]Nice theory, but Nala didn't have them as adult. : D[/quote]
That's because she doesn't have the ear rim "gene". ; )

[SuperBabySimba]

Oh yeah... Of course.

[SuperBabySimba]

[quote="Akril"]and in TLK. Judginig by the two examples we saw in TLK the trend seemed to be that male cubs look like their father while female cubs look like their mother[/quote]

I must point out that this isn't entirely true. We have a third example. Mufasa and Scar look completely different in every which way yet they share the same father. Well, at least I think they must share the same father as Scar was the first in line to become king after Mufasa. So, apparently male cubs can look like their mother because not both Mufasa and Scar can look like their father. And this leads to a valid assumption that also females can look like their father.

[Akril]

[quote="SuperBabySimba"]I must point out that this isn't entirely true. We have a third example. Mufasa and Scar look completely different in every which way yet they share the same father. Well, at least I think they must share the same father as Scar was the first in line to become king after Mufasa. So, apparently male cubs can look like their mother because not both Mufasa and Scar can look like their father. And this leads to a valid assumption that also females can look like their father.[/quote]
Okay, you got me there. I forgot about Mufasa and Scar.

I also remembered something else: in all the pre-SP TLK storybooks, the cub at the end of TLK is always called a boy when its gender is mentioned. Of course, the storybooks are just as canon as all other tie-in material (that is, not very), so that probably doesn't mean much.

[SuperBabySimba]

[quote="Akril"][quote="SuperBabySimba"]I must point out that this isn't entirely true. We have a third example. Mufasa and Scar look completely different in every which way yet they share the same father. Well, at least I think they must share the same father as Scar was the first in line to become king after Mufasa. So, apparently male cubs can look like their mother because not both Mufasa and Scar can look like their father. And this leads to a valid assumption that also females can look like their father.[/quote]
Okay, you got me there. I forgot about Mufasa and Scar.

I also remembered something else: in all the pre-SP TLK storybooks, the cub at the end of TLK is always called a boy when its gender is mentioned. Of course, the storybooks are just as canon as all other tie-in material (that is, not very), so that probably doesn't mean much.[/quote]

No it doesn't. The book universe evidently has nothing to do with the film makers' views. Not the first film's or even SP's. I'm quite sure all the book authors assumed it's a boy mostly because it looks so much like Simba did when he himself was a baby. (:

[cubbykovu]

I totally agree with everyone

I think it all depends if you clas the storybooks as valid additions to the universe of TLK or not if you do then the cub is obviously Kopa if you don't then it is obviously Kiara