Timon

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Timon

Postby KingKivuli » October 13th, 2013, 4:17 pm

Open topic to freely talk about Timon :luau:
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Re: Timon

Postby Zonofon » October 15th, 2013, 8:01 pm

Because of Timon I found this forum. He really is my favorite character. I've known him since childhood, when I did not know about the existence of the TLK film. And for me he was just a funny character.
But when I saw the TLK 3 I saw him on the other side.
And today I am convinced that Timon is a great character. He can be very different - kind, devoted, but he can be sarcastic and lazy. Timon attracts me with his sincerity. He has never disappointed me.
On the one hand it is good that in TLK 1, he is very funny. But on the other hand because of it it is difficult for many to see his great qualities in TLK 3.
In general it is very good that there is such a character that can not leave anyone indifferent (both positively and negatively).
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Re: Timon

Postby Regulus » October 16th, 2013, 4:42 pm

I don't really like Timon. Sorry to all the meerkat fans around here, but I think it's about time that I explain why.

For starters, his voice is rather annoying. He's like Zazu, but without that awesome British accent.

But that's not what really bothers me. The main reason why I don't like him is because of the way he treats Pumbaa. His entire existence, in the first film, is nothing but comic relief. Instead of actually being funny, however, he's just mean.

He takes credit for Pumbaa's good ideas, but otherwise manipulates the warthog into doing whatever he wants. He takes advantage of Pumbaa's stupidity, his lack of family, and his kind, relaxed personality, with the obvious intention of only working to benefit himself.

I've known people like that. I've been in Pumbaa's situation one too many times, and let me tell you: it isn't pleasant.

Timon doesn't look after anyone but himself, and he's not afraid to admit it. He doesn't really care about anyone or anything; that was what allowed him to adopt the philosophy of Hakuna Matata to begin with.

He didn't rescue Simba. He kept Simba away from his home, and prevented the cub from fulfilling his place in life. Timon used Simba for his own protection, and that was it.

In TLK 3 I can almost feel bad for Timon, but I don't. There was a reason why he was kicked out--because he couldn't do his job. He couldn't do any job, and his excuse was that he thought he deserved better. I'm sure his family grew tired of that really quickly.

He didn't even get exiled, so it wasn't like that. He left his family because of the severity of his acute cranial rectitis. He was too absorbed in himself to do any job or contribute to his colony in any way, but he couldn't see it. He was incapable of fathoming the idea that he was wrong to think the way he did.

Oh, but I know what you're going to say. He changed! That's part of character development, and I'm glad the writers allowed a main character to initially exemplify such poor qualities, and change later on. But that doesn't mean I can still like him.

Mostly, that's because part of me wonders why he changed. I have little doubt that he decided to help Simba, simply because he realized what was in it for him. He found that if he helped Simba, he could live in the Pridelands with the protection of multiple lions. I just have to wonder about that, looking back through all those scenes. I know he was far too thick to change his mind for the right reasons.

So there you have it. That's why I don't like Timon. That's why Timon is my least favorite character. In my opinion, he has fewer redeeming qualities than even Scar or Zira, who are supposed to be the real bad guys.
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Re: Timon

Postby Carl » October 16th, 2013, 4:49 pm

^ I've always preferred Pumbaa of the duo and did feel bad for him on account of Timon treating him that way, but other than that, I never thought of Timon as anything more than comic relief. I do see your point, I just never thought of it that way. I don't hate him, and he does make me laugh, but beyond that, I never put that much thought into him at all, so.
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Re: Timon

Postby Timon the great » October 17th, 2013, 7:15 pm

Regulus wrote:I don't really like Timon. Sorry to all the meerkat fans around here, but I think it's about time that I explain why.

For starters, his voice is rather annoying. He's like Zazu, but without that awesome British accent.

But that's not what really bothers me. The main reason why I don't like him is because of the way he treats Pumbaa. His entire existence, in the first film, is nothing but comic relief. Instead of actually being funny, however, he's just mean.

He takes credit for Pumbaa's good ideas, but otherwise manipulates the warthog into doing whatever he wants. He takes advantage of Pumbaa's stupidity, his lack of family, and his kind, relaxed personality, with the obvious intention of only working to benefit himself.

I've known people like that. I've been in Pumbaa's situation one too many times, and let me tell you: it isn't pleasant.

Timon doesn't look after anyone but himself, and he's not afraid to admit it. He doesn't really care about anyone or anything; that was what allowed him to adopt the philosophy of Hakuna Matata to begin with.

He didn't rescue Simba. He kept Simba away from his home, and prevented the cub from fulfilling his place in life. Timon used Simba for his own protection, and that was it.

In TLK 3 I can almost feel bad for Timon, but I don't. There was a reason why he was kicked out--because he couldn't do his job. He couldn't do any job, and his excuse was that he thought he deserved better. I'm sure his family grew tired of that really quickly.

He didn't even get exiled, so it wasn't like that. He left his family because of the severity of his acute cranial rectitis. He was too absorbed in himself to do any job or contribute to his colony in any way, but he couldn't see it. He was incapable of fathoming the idea that he was wrong to think the way he did.

Oh, but I know what you're going to say. He changed! That's part of character development, and I'm glad the writers allowed a main character to initially exemplify such poor qualities, and change later on. But that doesn't mean I can still like him.

Mostly, that's because part of me wonders why he changed. I have little doubt that he decided to help Simba, simply because he realized what was in it for him. He found that if he helped Simba, he could live in the Pridelands with the protection of multiple lions. I just have to wonder about that, looking back through all those scenes. I know he was far too thick to change his mind for the right reasons.

So there you have it. That's why I don't like Timon. That's why Timon is my least favorite character. In my opinion, he has fewer redeeming qualities than even Scar or Zira, who are supposed to be the real bad guys.

And see, this is a prime example of where you and others who talk down on him, mess up.

You literally take him out of context from the films and only look at him on one or two angles which doesn't even work in the first place for this character. And, it goes to show that Timon Is a complex meerkat. But I personally feel you people just don't want to truthfully admit that.

I didn't get offended by what you said as you might be thinking and it's not the reason why I posted this. And I know you'll probably say it's your opinion too. But did you know that it's wrong when it comes to people like yourself, giving a false image to everyone else that Timon, for example, is completely selfish? That's distorting the truth about himself.

After Everything TLK 3 has to offer for him since it's his own film, and since you seem to have a considerable amount of knowledge about it (without me having to point to the exact scenes on some of this), Consider these questions:


Do you honestly believe inside, that he really is selfish from the films?

Do you think that all those scenes with him in his meerkat colony meant that he actually wanted to ruin things for them?

Do you honestly think that he fakes the love that he has for his family, including his mother in those scenes, and where he Even hugs and tells her that he loves her? Not only that, gives her a warm smile just before leaving her in the beginning?

What about the scene where Simba hugs him and Pumbaa and tells them that he couldn't have done it without them, and Timon willingly gives in And affectionately rubs his lion pal on the back? Do you honestly believe that's an act of carelessness from Timon?

Do you think that when he tells Pumbaa, "Friends stick together to the end" with a humble smile in the desert, is carelessness or wanting to take advantage of Pumbaa, on his part?

Did you know that before the corresponding scene in the question above happened, he suffered being alone in his jungle paradise and learned a very valuable lesson from it?




Think about it.

Sure, there will probably continue to be people like you who will try to have something negative to say about him. But I'm not gonna stay back, sit down and let you have another last laugh here on this. Not this time.

By the way, I find it rather odd you just now decided to make your post about this on him too. And I did read in your Q&A that he was your least favorite character before I actually asked you about it earlier this year, but you didn't tell me it was him, but mentioned Kopa instead. So I don't know what went on there.
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Re: Timon

Postby Zonofon » October 18th, 2013, 6:39 pm

I respect the opinions of others. But now I felt sorry for Timon.
I totally agree with Timon the great that we should look at all from different sides.
I always thought that the TLK 3 is good because it allows to see Timon different. Firstly it is the warmth and sincerity of his feelings to his family and friends. And they respond to him with the same sincerity. I believe that Ma did not want to Timon left the colony. The most important proof-Ma decided to find Timon and she found him at the end of the movie. Timon left voluntarily. Community has not kicked him out of colony.
Is it possible to call an egoist who risks his life for a friend? Timon could be eaten by hyenas. He could have died when he was in a tunnel to lure the hyenas into a trap. And Ma was worried about him. But Timon could not do it all, and tell to Simba that he will help him mentally and stand on the sidelines.
When all is well ended Timon could forget his family and live with Pumbaa under the protection of Simba. They will get more, do not share it with anyone. But he invited the entire colony, family. Is that selfish?
Most importantly, how to look at things. In my text, I'm not making excuses for Timon. I'm just describing what is happening. And it's enough to know that Timon is not bad. Need to look impartially.
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Re: Timon

Postby juhouh » October 18th, 2013, 6:55 pm

I like his friend Pumbaa more. Timon is quite annoying (in the movie) but in the TV series he's cool. Made me always laugh as a kid
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Re: Timon

Postby Regulus » October 18th, 2013, 9:20 pm

I knew this was going to happen. :oops:

Timon the great wrote:And see, this is a prime example of where you and others who talk down on him, mess up.

You literally take him out of context from the films and only look at him on one or two angles which doesn't even work in the first place for this character. And, it goes to show that Timon Is a complex meerkat. But I personally feel you people just don't want to truthfully admit that.

I didn't get offended by what you said as you might be thinking and it's not the reason why I posted this. And I know you'll probably say it's your opinion too. But did you know that it's wrong when it comes to people like yourself, giving a false image to everyone else that Timon, for example, is completely selfish? That's distorting the truth about himself.


No, he's not completely selfish. And yes, he is a complex character. That, I agree with.

But it's very clear to me that his inherent nature is selfish. He actually has to learn to care about anyone other than himself, which is essentially the entire plot of TLK 3.

After Everything TLK 3 has to offer for him since it's his own film, and since you seem to have a considerable amount of knowledge about it (without me having to point to the exact scenes on some of this), Consider these questions:

Do you honestly believe inside, that he really is selfish from the films?


Absolutely! :D

Up until the ending, what did he ever do that wasn't selfish? :mhm:

He left his family. He had no intention of ever being a meerkat, and he had no personal ties to anyone other than his mother--which, of course, he willingly severed to live his own life. He had no sense of duty or responsibility to his colony.

Everything that makes TLK as special as it is, is just completely backwards with Timon. It's twisted, flipped, and inverted to the point where his movie is hardly even recognizable as a Lion King story, aside from the setting.

Simba ran away from home because he was forced into that situation. The entire movie revolves around his relationship with his father, and the meaning of the story is that his place in life is with his pride.

Meanwhile, Nala ran away from Scar so that she could find help. That's one of the reasons why I have as much respect for Nala as I do. She knew what she fought for, she knew what she had to do, and she was willing to do it--thus being the polar opposite of Timon. Considering that Nala is my favorite character, my perception of this probably isn't a coincidence. :chuckle:

Heck, even Zazu stayed in the Pridelands to help out as much as he could during Scar's reign. Sarabi remained strong through her struggles, during that same time. All the characters in the films, except for Scar and Timon, are like this. They have a strong sense of family, which guides them through life and motivates them to complete their actions.

But Timon just leaves. :nukawut:

He leaves his entire colony, including his mother, out to dry. He runs off to the Pridelands because he thinks he's so special. His head is too big, and he's just too full of himself. He doesn't try to help out, because he thinks he's above that.

If we look at this from a human perspective, Timon strikes me as being the guy who complains about society, but doesn't do anything to fix it. He's the misanthropic guy who would chose to go live on his own deserted island somewhere, in a little bubble of narcissistic superiority, instead of taking matters into his own hands and doing something productive.

I realize that's a bit harsh, but that's the way I see it.

As Mufasa said, "You are more than what you have become." I think that just about sums up Timon's character perfectly. After all, Mufasa was talking to Simba, when he was under Timon's influence.

Do you think that all those scenes with him in his meerkat colony meant that he actually wanted to ruin things for them?


No. But he's careless. He doesn't think before he acts. He obviously doesn't do what he's told, and he obviously can't do a better job by doing his own thing. If that was the case, this would be a completely different story. But, instead of learning from his own mistakes, he keeps doing the same thing over and over again--destroying the tunnels.

He doesn't ever think about the effects of his actions until he has to face them.

Why doesn't he do that? My guess is that it's because he thinks he's special. He thinks he doesn't have to abide by the rules of the typical meerkat. He thinks he can break out into a song about his love for himself and his dreams of the future, while he's on sentry duty.

Simply put, he has no understanding of what it means to be responsible. And, thus, I sympathize more with his colony than with him. It's not that he can't help it, he just doesn't try. :itchy:

Do you honestly think that he fakes the love that he has for his family, including his mother in those scenes, and where he Even hugs and tells her that he loves her? Not only that, gives her a warm smile just before leaving her in the beginning?


Let us not forget that he leaves his mother on his own accord, with no intention of ever returning. Also, she's the only meerkat to support him despite his attitude. The fact that only his mother can even try to support him when he's a full-grown adult must say something about his character, no?

I know it sounds stupid, but I'm going to side with the majority on this. Let's be honest here; we all know that there's a problem between Timon and his colony. Can we really assume that his colony treats him unfairly, or can we assume that Timon is doing something wrong, instead? :thoughtful:

Based on the way he treats Pumbaa, it is no surprise to me that the rest of his colony wanted him kicked out. The only reason why Pumbaa stuck around was because he was either too nice, too stupid, or just didn't have anywhere else to go.

It's one thing to suck at your job; anyone can practice and learn with experience and a good mentor. But it's something entirely different to suck at your job, and then treat everyone like your tool, because you just don't care about them.

I'm assuming that's what it was like, but I'll admit that I don't quite know for sure. :thoughtful2:

If you think that Timon isn't selfish because of the way he treats his mother, I'm not going to dispute that. But, the way I see it is that his mother is the only one who comforts him, because he's that much of a burden to the rest of his family, as a result of his selfish attitude.

My reasoning is simple; my belief is that Timon is inherently selfish, not psychopathic. Of course he's still going to hug his mother. If you give a selfish person a thousand dollars, they'll hug you, too. :macho:

What about the scene where Simba hugs him and Pumbaa and tells them that he couldn't have done it without them, and Timon willingly gives in And affectionately rubs his lion pal on the back? Do you honestly believe that's an act of carelessness from Timon?


No. But I don't see how that's an act which has relevance pertaining to his inherent, careless nature, either. Timon acts this way because he feels like he did something. It has absolutely nothing to do with selfishness.

And, as I said, Timon does change at the end of TLK 3. I'm not including that.

Do you think that when he tells Pumbaa, "Friends stick together to the end" with a humble smile in the desert, is carelessness or wanting to take advantage of Pumbaa, on his part?


I think he realized that his life would be meaningless if he didn't help his friend out.

It only took him the entire first hour of his own movie to figure that out. :P

Did you know that before the corresponding scene in the question above happened, he suffered being alone in his jungle paradise and learned a very valuable lesson from it?


Yep, that is correct. That's exactly what I meant. He was left alone because of his own selfishness, and he eventually realized the consequences of this.

He learned that he can't treat others like crap. He learned that he has a responsibility to look after others, or else he's on his own in life.

Sure, there will probably continue to be people like you who will try to have something negative to say about him. But I'm not gonna stay back, sit down and let you have another last laugh here on this. Not this time.


What?

I'm not obligated to like every character. No one is. This is what opinions are for. :nehneh:

Besides, Timon isn't real, so I can be as biased and harsh as I want with my assessments of his thoughts, actions, and intentions without any moral or ethical repercussions. Such character assessments are an integral component of rhetorical analysis for just about any story.

I could do this sort of character analysis for Scar, Mufasa, Simba, Kiara, Zazu, Rafiki, and even the hyenas, too. It's not just Timon who gets this sort of criticism from me, he just gets the most of it. :P

By the way, I find it rather odd you just now decided to make your post about this on him too. And I did read in your Q&A that he was your least favorite character before I actually asked you about it earlier this year, but you didn't tell me it was him, but mentioned Kopa instead. So I don't know what went on there.


To clarify this: Timon is my least favorite canon character, whereas Kopa is my least favorite semi-canon character because he's basically just a cliche, overrated Simba-clone used in what seems to be half of all TLK fanfics ever written.
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Re: Timon

Postby Zonofon » October 22nd, 2013, 9:08 pm

Not all are created for everyday work. They believe that it is necessary to facilitate this work. Sometimes it is only concept. But sometimes it turns out to implement.
If Timon did not leave the colony, then so would have continued meerkats dig tunnels. Timon is a bad worker. I admit. But not because of disrespect to the other meerkats. The case of two things. The first is his laziness. I can not deny it. But often laziness is the engine of progress.
But this is not the most important thing. I think the most important is the nature of Timon. Timon is dreamer. He can not live a monotonous life. He did not consider other meerkats worse (he had nothing bad to say about the others and thought that he is above the others), but he felt that others did not understand him. And it's true. Timon was just different. After all, we are all different. And is it bad? And I think it's good that he left the colony. It all ended very well. He brought much more benefit to the colony, than if he had just dug a tunnels.
I believe that change life is very difficult. Even harder to leave home. But Timon did not sit and complain about his life. He changed his life and and helped others.
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Re: Timon

Postby Animal of the Wild » October 30th, 2013, 12:40 am

I think he's ok in the movies, but liked him a lot better on the TV show. As flawed as that show was, I feel it portrayed Timon in a way that worked much better than the movies did. He seems rather vanilla flavored in them by comparision to his truly wacky TV counterpart.
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