What are your overall thoughts on SP?

What do you think of SP over all?

1. A horrible, terrible movie that never should have happened. There is absolutely nothing redeemable about it
1
3%
2. A terrible movie that disgraces the lion king. I only liked a few tiny parts of the movie: the rest can die in a fire.
0
No votes
3.A really bad film all around. There were some good parts but most of was really bad. It should not have happened, but it's not the worst thing ever.
0
No votes
4. Just plain not a very good film. There were enjoyable parts but over all it was pretty bad. I don't like this movie.
3
8%
5. Mediocre. There are good parts but there's also a lot of bad parts. I found the movie just "meh".
1
3%
6. A little better then just mediocre, but still not the greatest. It has a lot of good parts but also a lot of really bad ones. Over all just alright
8
21%
7. A pretty good movie, with a lot of enjoyable and memorable things about it, although it's still definitely flawed
11
28%
8. A really good movie. Yeah, it has flaws but what doesn't? It's a great movie that I would watch again.
7
18%
9. An amazing movie, almost as good as the original. There were only a few tiny flaws that drag it down: the rest is awesome.
3
8%
10. A perfect, flawless movie that may be even better then the original. There is nothing wrong with it whatsoever.
5
13%
 
Total votes : 39

Re: What are your overall thoughts on SP?

Postby KentuckyWildcat » February 28th, 2016, 7:23 am

This was a bit tough for me to put a rating on, but I ultimately chose a 6. I was only 8-9 years old when it released, and I played it to death then mostly because Kovu was one of my favorites characters in any franchise. In the years since then, my overall opinion of the film has unfortunately dropped because some of the flaws have simply become too much for me to ignore as I've matured. It still has its positives to be sure. Although it might have been taken a bit to the extreme, I actually think the idea of Simba continuing to work out his insecurities is a really good one. Although no longer a character I'm borderline obsessed with, I still think Kovu is a good addition too. However, there's a couple of problems that really stand out to me and hold back my overall enjoyment.

First is the complete lack of continuity in the backstory for the Outlanders. If it was just Zira, it would be easy enough to explain a way that she wasn't present at the climax of the original movie. What we actually see is an entire pride of Scar loyalists though. One strong enough that they actually seem to be winning before Kiara and Kovu intervene in the battle scene. There's simply no way that such a group could have logically been completely absent from the action when Simba returned home to reclaim his rightful place.

The second is that Kiara is a little too perfect. I don't know quite what to call it because she doesn't really fit the technical definition of a Mary Sue, but the way even her objectively bad decisions work out perfectly and she never actually seems to learn or grow definitely bothers me. She runs away from the Pridelands and right into a trap during her hunting test, but it's OK because it reunites her with Kovu. She instantly trusts him even though he's planning to kill her at that point, but it's OK because he changes overnight. She all but disowns her father and runs away, but it's OK because she once again reunites with Kovu and they work together to save the day. After all of that, it's Simba who essentially admits to being wrong the whole time. Not that he was blameless, but the fact that Kiara didn't even realize how gullible she'd been the whole time let alone actually pay any consequences for it really frustrates me nowadays.

Since those flaws are so integral to the plot, that's why I'm left rating it as just a little above mediocre.
Come death. Come suffering. I will not live in fear. In this fleeting life where time escapes us, the path of least resistance is a slow quiet death. I'd rather burn out than fade away.
KentuckyWildcat
Mother don't you cry

User avatar

Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership

Hell don't need me

Posts: 182
Joined: September 20th, 2011, 5:34 am
Location: United States
Gender: Male
Pride Points: 7

Re: What are your overall thoughts on SP?

Postby Hatari05 » February 29th, 2016, 1:09 pm

I gave it a ten but in only because that was the only option that said better than the first, it's closer to a 9.5.

Now onto my reasons for why I find it better basically it all comes down to characters. Lion King was about Simba and only Simba everyone else was barely a supporting character, with LKII this isn't as much of a problem. Zira is far more fleshed out than Scar, her motivation is a lot more understandable, and her relationship with her pawns goes quite a bit deeper. Her relationship with Nuka is similar to Scar and the hyenas but the consequences are shown to have left Nuka unhinged and desperate for his mother's approval and equally desperate to Prove himself better than his brother who he resents, resulting in his death while trying to get her attention his whole trying to get his mother's approval could be compared to Simba's own personal trial. His death results in Zira scarring and disowning Kovu and declaring war out of pure rage. That's a lot deeper than Scar and the hyenas and very much presents Zira as far more multi layered than him, so the villain is a lot more interesting and has more depth, this makes the main conflict more intriguing since both families are fleshed out well.

Simba's story is continued naturally, Simba is in my opinion without a doubt the most interesting character in the movie going through a great arc that continues and builds upon everything that happens to him in the first. His relationship with Kiara is more developed than even Simba and Mufasa was and that's not an insult. They both go through a lot and their relationship has moments where both learn from each other. Simba's relationship with his father also continues showing just how much Mufasa inspired Simba and how much Simba desperately wants to live up to him adding another layer to an already incredible story between father and Son and only further establishing the importance of Mufasa's role. In short Simba is every bit as deep and complex as he was in the first and in a way carries the movie on his shoulders a feat he does to great success.

Kovu is ironically a mixed bag he has a good arc, a pretty good story with his family, a good dynamic with Simba and some intriguing ideas about his thoughts of Scar and his connection to him, the problem a seventy five minute already dedicated time to other characters is nowhere near enough time to develop all of it as a result Kovu is one of the few characters whose arc does feel underdeveloped the whole movie alone could've been Kovu's arc but there were other elements going on this makes Kovu's arc feel rushed and may leave audiences feeling a little short changed and cheated regarding his character. However Kovu is still more fleshed out than anyone except Simba in the first movie. He also has a few parallels to Simba living in the shadow of his successor, being manipulated by a family member and accused of the death of someone he loves, being sent into exile where he reunites with his love. However he contrasts Simba due to the fact that he wants nothing to do with scar and ultimately rejects him, also he listens to his future mate when she asks him to return.

Kiara's arc has a few elements, her struggle to be self sufficient and her relationship with her father both of which were pretty good and in a way her relationship with Kovu is what made her ultimately embrace her responsibility. Her desire to handle everything herself stemmed from her need to be free because Kiara wanted more than the life of a princess. This all drives her actions but the idea is it was her desire to not rule and her compassion that made her a potential leader in the first place. She has a chance to leave living the life she always wanted but chooses not to. In fact Kiara is quite similar to her father he too wanted to leave his life behind but unlike her Simba wanted to leave out of fear, Kiara out of a desire for freedom both rejected their royal heritage which went against the path their father wanted for them, but both in the end went back which leads to their differences. Simba is motivated by a sense of responsibility while Kiara is just motivated by compassion and unlike Simba she is a lot less uncertain. In conclusion Kiara is a blend of both her parents having Simba's desire to leave his royal heritage behind, but having the certainty and resolve of her mother. This becomes even more intriguing when Kovu is shown to have some similarities to Simba.

The music is good some better than the first some not but only one song I would say is mediocre and the songs better tie to the plot of the movie as well as the characters arcs and motivations giving the songs a lot more depth usually their are some cases where the first did this too though the songs in the first were not all that relevant to the plot a massive contrast with the second one of the most important scenes in the movie and in a way even the franchise is a song, We are one is critical to the plot and characters and even determines and foreshadows the end of the movie, no song in the first has that kind of importance.

Sorry for making this so long just in case you want to get past this comment quickly here's the summarized version. I think the second is the best because of the more balanced cast, the more complex villain, and the story is a lot deeper, I also find it to actually be one of Disney's best movies, direct to DVD or not.
Hatari05

Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership

Posts: 234
Joined: August 11th, 2015, 7:00 am
Location: Billings MT USA
Nickname(s): you can just call me Hatari for short
Gender: Male
Pride Points: 26

Re: What are your overall thoughts on SP?

Postby Shadowfax » March 1st, 2016, 3:02 pm

I gave it a 4. As a kid, I did like the movie but as I got older I found I was picking it apart more and more and compared to the first movie, it was incredibly dull. I don't like Kovu or Kiara, not a fan of the animation, there were too many plot holes and it just looked lame.

Nala and Simba's characters had COMPLETELY changed, which fair enough can happen as you mature, but Nala especially was just booted to one side. And Simba.. just tured into a grumpy Lion.

That being said, one thing that made me give it a 4 and not a 1; the soundtrack was pretty good. The songs were catchy (With the exception of Upendi) and as a character, I liked Zira.
Shadowfax
Never give up;

User avatar

Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership

And good luck will find you.

Posts: 18935
Joined: March 20th, 2012, 3:48 pm
Location: Gran Pulse.
Pride Points: 182

Re: What are your overall thoughts on SP?

Postby Rollo » March 3rd, 2016, 5:37 pm

.
Last edited by Rollo on February 27th, 2020, 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rollo

Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership

Posts: 1064
Joined: January 11th, 2016, 6:01 pm
Pride Points: 29

Re: What are your overall thoughts on SP?

Postby UncoordinatedPisces » March 4th, 2016, 9:47 pm

[quote="lelizwe"]I was definitely blinded by nostalgia goggles before[/quote]

This sums up how I see SP now. I gave it a 6, purely because my personal enjoyment is still quite high with this one. I know the movie has countless flaws and the character development isn't great, and the animation and soundtrack and story aren't as good etc etc. Nostalgia is what makes it a 6 and not a 5.

Love Will Find A Way remains one of my favourite songs (go listen to the French version, its my favourite!) though.
[quote="Newt Scamander"]My philosophy is that worrying means you suffer twice[/quote]
UncoordinatedPisces
just an oddball

User avatar

Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership

I'm getting there, one clumsy step at a time

Posts: 9857
Joined: December 22nd, 2010, 1:44 pm
Nickname(s): Amy
Gender: Female
Pride Points: 149

Re: What are your overall thoughts on SP?

Postby PridelandsPhantom » March 16th, 2016, 11:56 pm

My overall thoughts on SP are that it is pretty good as far as sequels go and that I actually think it stands pretty well as a film in most regards. The only thing is that it leaves huge plot holes and things unanswered which was not a good idea. My thoughts on SP are numerous so I'll expand on my original answer a bit. First of all, I don't see Simba being out of character being overprotective of Kiara he is. Simba is still unsure if he really knows how to be king considering Mufasa was murdered, he was away from his mother and raised outside the Pridelands so he still has doubts about himself. Considering the trauma Simba experienced as a cub, he would be overprotective of Kiara not wanting something to happen to her. He realizes his behavior as a cub was reckless and doesn't want his daughter to fall into the same trap. I believe Nala's more carefree and more laid-back attitude has to do with her seeing the utter destruction of the Pridelands as a cub under Scar's rule and living under a dictator. She sees the balance restored and probably understands Kiara is curious but not quiet a foolhearty as her father was at her age.

I do believe Nuka and Vitani to be the biological cubs of Scar and Zira. Who is to say that before Scar approached Nala he and Zira didn't have Nuka? Maybe Nuka was being trained to be king and something happened to him and he became brain damaged? He was also the first-born cub and Scar would be bitter on that subject considering the history between him and Mufasa. Zira could have been pregnant with Vitani when Scar decided going to a younger lioness gave him a better chance of having a suitable heir. Both Scar and Zira had some mental unstability going on. If I had to guess, there was probably a lot of inbreeding happening to the outsiders. :saywhat: Kovu was not Scar's son and maybe not Zira's I am not sure on that point. I feel that the anger and hate of Pridelanders and Outsiders was justified considering how Scar rose to power and how Simba would feel towards followers of Scar including his distrust towards Kovu. I really find Love Will Find a Way sort of cheesy (no offense) even though I like the dynamic between Kiara and Kovu as a couple. It does show that people raised in hate can change their minds (Vitani did as well).

Vitani is my favorite underdeveloped character. I believe she really doesn't buy into Zira's hate and anger towards Simba and the pride, but is following her mother and wants to be an integral part of her pride. I like that she shows love for both Zira and Kovu as well as Nuka even when they're wrong. I honestly feel bad for Nuka and think his perceived crazy side is more of trying to get Zira's attention and approval. His death was tragic as it was the only time Zira really ever gave him the affection and attention he wanted. He was so scrawny because of the lack of food in the outlands and any good food would go towards Zira's favorite, Kovu.

I really can't see Mufasa waning to play Cupid through Rafikki. I can see that happening because Kiara and Kovu fell in love but not Mufasa making it happen. Upendi was weird and really not necessary for SP, at least to me. If Zira was Scar's mate/queen this also explains why she holds such hatred towards Simba for kicking her out as queen and leaving Scar's heirs as unable to take the throne. The fight at the end was over too fast between the Pridelanders and Outsiders. I think it would have taken more for Kovu and Vitani to turn towards the Pridelander's side just because they've essentially been brainwashed by Zira.

I think Zira is a far better villain than Scar because she's bloodthirsty and intent on her revenge to the point that she will kill her own daughter! I wish they would have left Zira's death scene as it was in the pencil test because it makes more sense than her just falling to her death. The "No, never" she speaks gives me chills every time I hear it!

Kovu is a character with an interesting dynamic. On one hand, he doesn't feel hate towards the Pridelands that Zira does but also feels loyalty to Zira and like he owes Scar because that's what he's been taught. He was trained to kill Simba and take the throne much like Scar did. You can see his conflict between loyalty to his family because they're his family but his feelings that the hatred is wrong. In some ways, I see Simba of wanting to run from his problems rather than face them. However, like Nala, Kiara tells him they have to face them and their families or the hate will only grow.
Dog Mom to Misty, Sango, Tami, Abby, and Kawaii. :)
Three Angel Babies at the Rainbow Bridge: Mija, London, and Olga :cry:
PridelandsPhantom
Kion is My Waifu!

User avatar

Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership

Disney Fan and Lioness at Heart

Posts: 451
Joined: October 25th, 2010, 1:09 am
Nickname(s): Mako, Dog Mom, Alex, Jessi
Gender: Female
Pride Points: 12

Re: What are your overall thoughts on SP?

Postby Gaze » March 18th, 2016, 9:44 am

I voted 8 on the poll.

I absolutely LOVE Simba's Pride - I think it's unfair to be harsh on it. it's a direct-to-video sequel, and for what it is, I think it's very good.
I don't doubt that nostalgia plays a part in it. TLK came out the year before I was born, but SP came out when I was juuust old enough to very vaguely remember seeing SP trailers at the beginning of VHS tapes or on TV or what have you. so it definitely carries with it a certain feeling I associate with that part of my life that I remember in an incredibly distant and vague way, which is very comforting.

still, I had my anti-SP phase. in my early teens, when I was participating in online TLK fan communities more, I was really in the "complaining about Nala's eye color" sort of camp, often arguing that SP is inexcusably lazy. I had quite a negative outlook on the film, aside from my love of Zira.
luckily, I loosened up over the years. it was actually when I started college that I truly began to appreciate the film again. I was having a very bad time emotionally and had an extremely strained relationship with my best friend, who was the only person at my school I felt I could turn to, as I was having such a hard time truly connecting with my new friends and acquaintances. ANYWAY.....I would often watch VHS tapes of older Disney movies alone in my room and get incredibly emotionally invested in them, with my life circumstances making me feel a lot more inclined to view the films in an ultra-positive light. SP was one of those - I'm pretty sure I shed some tears to SP in that dorm room, and I never cry...it was just really that beautiful and touching to me, lmao.

anyway, sorry this is becoming my life's story....I guess I'll make some lists....

why i love it:
- the opening sequence. I think it was a wise choice to use He Lives in You, and I think the imagery and mood of the scene is lovely.
- the character of Kiara. she often gets a lot of hate in the fan community, and I used to dislike her a lot too. I thought she was annoying, bratty, and dumb. I really can't help but feel this was an 'internalized misogyny' type of reaction, and I'm so disappointed I used to feel that way. she's such a good character. even from the time she's a cub, she's exploring her sense of self and thinking quite introspectively. she doesn't let Simba's overprotectiveness hold her back from pursuing what she wants and is ultimately for the best in the end. she was able to see Kovu for who he really is and to interpret the real meaning of the "we are one" message when Simba couldn't.
- the character of Kovu!! I absolutely adore him - he might be my favorite character from the whole franchise. I'll admit it right away: I'm a sucker for a moody male character trying to escape from the fate someone else has set down for him. Kovu reminds me of two other characters I adore - Prince Zuko from ATLA, and Brambleclaw from Warriors. lol. anyway, not only does he have a nice-looking design, I just really enjoy his personality. he has spent his whole life being conditioned by Zira to kill, but it doesn't take much time spent with Kiara for him to start rethinking everything and wondering if there's more to him than just being the next incarnation of Scar. that shows a great amount of strength, and like Kiara, introspectiveness IMO. even his hatred for Simba, which has been drilled into him hardcore for his whole life, melts away very quickly.
- on that note, Kovu's exile absolutely kills me and is very powerful. I think that's the bit I've cried at most notably, LOL. I just feel so bad for him being thrust into his fate and being unable to escape Scar's pawprints! )~:
- the Outlanders in general. Zira is an incredible villain. her intensity and drive is downright scary. I love Nuka and Vitani's character designs, and I think a lot is expressed through these characters' appearances and their brief scenes. I wish we knew more about them. Nuka's desire to please his mother and get her attention is so sad. and there's just something about Vitani - I can't quite put my finger on it. she's so tough and a willing participant in Zira's plot, yet she immediately listens to Kiara during the ending battle. some people would probably consider that to be a flaw in the film, but I think it just makes her character more interesting.
- the dynamic between Zira and Simba. I'm just going to link Hitari05's thread "Simba and Zira similarities" to illustrate this point. I never noticed some of the subtleties of the two characters' dynamic before I read that post, and I'm impressed by it.
- the music in general. obviously the score is nowhere near as good as the first film's - no other score is, IMO - but it's very effective. I enjoy all the original songs, and My Lullaby is one of my favorites from the franchise.

why it could be better:
- my biggest gripe is that the deleted scenes were deleted. Nuka's original death scene and Zira's suicide are so impactful that I think just those two moments could have improved the film significantly. the fact that they even exist does imply to me that the SP creators were definitely considering the serious tone of the original while making the sequel.
- I don't get as angry about it as I used to....but the sudden design differences in Simba and Nala are distracting sometimes. I just wonder why it happened? surely the crew must have referenced the original character designs, lol.
- not enough Nala. hate to see her get pushed to the side. and certainly not enough Sarabi or Sarafina.
- obviously, the art and animation are not as impressive as the original. that's expected, and overall this isn't a very big deal to me because I think SP is very, very nice to look at.
- the Outlanders are not given enough background story. it'd be great to know what their exile was like, how Zira knew Scar and for how long, where Kovu came from, whether or not Nuka and Vitani are Zira's cubs, etc...
- the slightly rushed ending. everything after Zira's death happens a bit too fast. not enough of a look at how Kovu and Vitani feel about their mother's death. the sudden integration of the Outlanders, and their apparent knowledge of what to do in that weird ceremony bit that takes place at the end. lol.

in the grand scheme of things, I wish SP had been a bit more intensely emotional in some places and had given us as much character backstory and lore-building as possible. there were multiple areas where this could have been done, but the opportunity wasn't taken. still, that doesn't stop it from being a really enjoyable sequel with good characters and a solid story IMO.
Gaze
TLK collector

User avatar

Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership

and bad poster

Posts: 942
Joined: December 19th, 2012, 12:10 am
Location: WA
Pride Points: 26

Re: What are your overall thoughts on SP?

Postby Squeely » April 17th, 2016, 7:02 pm

Based on the poll criteria, I gave it a 7. It's definitely a pretty dang good film for what it is.

My dislikes:
Lowered animation quality, significantly. It's pretty good animation for DtDVD fare, but a pretty big step down from the first film. The more I watch it, the more it shows its cheapness, as I've noticed a lot of cut corners when it comes to background characters and such. Then there are strange design quirks like characters from the first film being pretty off in color. How the heck do you get the colors wrong?

Timon and Pumbaa. Ugh, by far my least favorite thing from SP is how they're written. Arguing constantly when they didn't fight at all in the first film, suddenly being bad at babysitting, unfunny jokes, and even being used at an inappropriate time (they feel out of place during the Outsiders vs Pridelanders fight, and why are trained warrior lionesses so afraid of a fart?).

Nala, Zazu, and Sarabi aren't given enough of a role. It really felt like the writers didn't know what to do with them for the most part. Is Sarabi even still alive? A simple line from Nala, like "I'm going hunting with Sarabi" or something could have least acknowledged her.

The Upendi scene. I like the song, though that's probably the nostalgia talking more than anything. The scene is a bit too out-of-left-field; I feel the writers tried to capture the spirit of IJCWTBK and failed. The song could have worked a lot better as a slowish jam, there's a reggae version out there (unfortunately not in English) and I feel like if it kept something of a reggae feel while also keeping in the spirit of classic Disney love songs, it could have worked out better. Have Rafiki lead Kovu and Kiara to a beautiful place of some sort, and let the falling in love happen a lot more naturally. I suppose my idea does sound more similar to CYFTLT than what we got, but different isn't necessarily better in this case.

All the mystery surrounding the Outsiders. I mean I guess I can appreciate that the film is less of an exposition-fest and lets viewers fill in the blanks on their own, but a little too much is left unexplained for my liking. What was Zira's relationship to Scar? Where were all those Scar loyalists during the first film? Who is Kovu's father, and who is Nuka and Vitani's father? Speculation is all we have to go on, and that's a shame. I also feel like the Outsider thing would have worked better if it was just Zira and her three cubs; I know it would have left her without an army to take on the Pridelanders with, but still. We wouldn't need much explanation as to why she got exiled - she was psychotic, and chose to take her cubs with her upon banishment. It's more the whole "half of the darn pride" thing I have trouble getting behind.

Lots of rushed or underdeveloped things. Kovu and Kiara fall in love too quickly, Kovu abandons his goal of killing Simba too quickly, Vitani is very underdeveloped, and the prides unite a bit too quickly in the end. Yeah, it's mostly the curse of it being a time-restrained children's film, but still.

I also wish the deleted scenes were kept in, as they would have added a lot. I'm okay with Zira's suicide being cut though, as there's something... not right, about outright showing suicide in a kid's film, and whoo boy would parents have complained. Even though I do think it's more fitting for the character.

My likes:
The animation. Yeah I know some aspects of it made it into my dislikes, but as I said, still good for DtDVD and the cheapness is mostly in background things. It does have a sense of polish to most of it.

The characters! These are great characters, especially for DtDVD fare. There's Kiara's cheerfulness and positive attitude, Simba's overprotectiveness and failings as a king in some aspects, which really lent itself towards giving him an understandable struggle and kept him from being Mufasa all over again, Kovu's struggles with everything about how he was raised, Zira's ruthless attitude, Nuka being pretty funny and also having one of the saddest death scenes, and even Vitani shines in the limited time she has a chance to. Even the underused Nala gets a couple good moments.

The songs. With the possible exception of Upendi, they're all pretty darn good. They're close to living up to their TLK predecessors. Close enough for my liking.

And well, overall I think it's a very good film for what it is, and I have a whole lot of love for it. But it does have a hefty amount of flaws.
Image
Ask me anything!#TeamFemale on the Gender Race

Image
Squeely
User avatar

Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership

Sassy cub

Posts: 2232
Joined: December 6th, 2015, 7:04 am
Location: Where my rump rests
Nickname(s): Debby, Debs, Deebee, Cap'n Squeels McDeebee
Telegram: @Squeely
Gender: Non-binary
Pride Points: 49

Re: What are your overall thoughts on SP?

Postby Amur_Tiger » April 17th, 2016, 8:37 pm

Voted a 5

My general thoughts are that SP wasn't well thought out or as thorough in execution as TLK, mostly this came down to jumbled handling of the cast carried over from the first movie, the new-character outlanders actually come off pretty well overall.

Simba, the dad who nags.

In spite of perceptions Simba isn't in his actions any more restraining on Kiara then his parents were on himself/Nala, providing young cubs with an escort is standard operating procedure but thanks to Simba trying to convince Kiara about it he gets a perception of being more constraining. At the end of the day the threat Simba's worried about is real and worthy of caution and generally reasonable. Where he can objectively said to be going wrong is his choice of escorts and the lack of playmate for Kiara. Prideland is just full of lonely lionesses it seems.

Kiara, the daughter who hates dad?

These are strong words but this is beyond teenage resentment if we go by her actions. Much of the back and forth between her and Simba is justifiable if self-centered on her part but closing in on the end any sense of father-daughter caring really breaks down. Simba returns from walk&talk with Kovu talking about an ambush and carrying fairly serious injuries, there is no justifiable reason why a loving and caring daughter would abandon dad at this point for the very person suspected to be the cause. If you really stretch it you might see this as purely having the hots for Kovu and that overriding everything else, but this all flies counter to the idea of compassion being a primary driver for Kiara. If you're compassionate, then compassion for the seriously injured, recently betrayed dad should be a part of that.

Absentee moms.

For all the lionesses around the pridelands there's a remarkable lack of parenting action on their part. Beyond the fact that it'd really be nice to see more Sarabi/Sarafina/Nala in the film this ends up setting up some really weird moments. Sarabi and Nala are implied to be pretty good hunters at a few points, Kiara's ineptitude suggests they took little to no role in raising her leaving it up to Simba who was raised by Timon & Pumba, there's a pretty clear failure in logic here.

Rafiki re-institutes arranged marriage

Fundamentally I view Rafiki as being unnecessary to the franchise as his key roles are all doing things that others could have done instead, primarily lionesses. Nala was well on her way to convincing Simba in TLK, Nala/Sarabi/Sarafina could have worked out that Nala needed a partner and arranged something. This isn't because I view the characcter itself as unpleasant, just displacing the roles of other characters and weakening them in the process. Nala would seem like a less inattentive mom if she arranged for Kiara to have playmates and suiters later in life. The whole thing having Mufasa's blessing doesn't really make it better, just seems like the ole lion might have gone a bit loopy in his dead-age. :lol:

Outlanders

The characters here are basically fine, you can understand their motivations and their actions match how their character is portrayed, Zira's unhinged actions match her portrayal. Kovu's rebelliousness fits well with his actions, etc. Fairly well executed bad guys, though I think there was a little too much effort to echo the first movie, but a lot of that ends up tying into the problems with the portrayal of the pride landers.

Overall arc

I'm never convinced by the basic premise of 'we should reunite the prides' which is probably in large part because the closest we got to a conversation about this was when Rafiki was talking to Mufasa spices, needless to say Mufasa wasn't able to make a very convincing argument there. The plot ends up being driven by Mufasa ex machina and Kiara's infatuation with badboy Kovu, neither of which leave me rooting for the characters to succeed at what they're doing to advance the plot.

Now part of this is my own perspective and biases as someone who knows a fair bit about the wild behavior of big cats and wishing there was a TLK analogue that got closer to some of the wild behavior. In TLK I get past this by just saying 'what they did worked' in SP I can't say that so much so it's hard for me to not think of all the solutions more natural-acting lions would come up with.

1. Active parenting by Nala/Sarabi/Sarafina, learning to hunt and grow up and such. Solves Kiara's challenge as a character.

2. More lion-cubs around would take the edge off the 'but I'm lonely' issue with Kiara. Solves Kiara/Simba/Nala's problem with unruly cubs.

3. Conflict between prides occurring during hunting expeditions. Solves the plot problem of why they need to stop fighting as casualties mount. Could have this be how Kovu & Kiara meet up, lionesses got into a brawl and now it's up to B-team to hunt for a bit, hunting together builds relationship and eventually love, only 1000x better then Upendi.

4. Lionesses bringing home the bacon ( sorry Pumba ). In particular after Simba gets ambushed having Kovu & Kiara bring home some meat to a hungry but injured pride would make everyone involved more reasonable.

5. Lioness deaths by the end of movie could justify the prides merging, especially if there's a number of orphaned cubs in the process.
Amur_Tiger
User avatar

Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership

Posts: 271
Joined: April 13th, 2016, 12:46 am
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Pride Points: 9

Re: What are your overall thoughts on SP?

Postby LeonKFox » June 23rd, 2017, 3:27 pm

I'm aware I am bumping this thread, but I don't much want to start a new one about the exact same subject.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I watched this film as a child so I most definitley have nostalgia for it, so much so that growing up I swore by it as my favourite of the first two films, i.e the only two I've ever had any real affinity for. And given the childish nature of The Lion Guard, this is unlikely to change any time soon.

I always loved this film for Kiara and the love story between her and Kovu, I always felt it was better handled than Simba and Nala's in the original (which even then is still a damn sight above the likes of The Little Mermaid from the Renassiance era) and while I do still love both characters, my most recent rewatch made me more aware of how quickly Kovu changes. The scene is really fun and heart warming but it does come much too soon, given the years of training and brainwashing he would have endured growing up.

And while I still like the idea of there being a lion or two that were manipulated by Scar during his time as ruler, to have it be a whole pride is a bit far fetched. If it had just been Zira who was exciled along with her cubs it would have made more sense as to how we never saw them during the finale of the original film.

Also, the fact that Mufasa is seemingly playing cupid with the idea of bringing Kovu and Kiara together. That leaves a little bit of a bad taste in my mouth now and I'd like to think it was more than Mufasa pulling a Picard and saying "Make it so!"

And the final elephant in the room (hah :lol: ) the animation and the backgrounds. It's hard to hold this against the film since it didn't have the budget that Lion King did or even the team at Walt Disney Animation Studios, but rather Disney Toon. Still, during Kiara's presentation (which has a lovely song that to this day I still adore) it's especially evident. The number of onlooking animals is far smaller and they hardly move, making the would be grandiose event feel oddly stilted.

I do still have a place in my heart for Simba's Pride, but the original definitley had better songs, score, scope and animation. It feels more... epic, which is a shame since the sequel does tackle some heavy themes and I'd argue has a bit more nuance in its conflict. Zira isn't evil "just because" or simply wants attention, she feels wronged, is bitter and misguided and raises her children to be just like her.
LeonKFox
User avatar

Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership

Posts: 99
Joined: November 6th, 2009, 8:13 pm
Location: England
Gender: Male
Pride Points: 1

PreviousNext

Return to The Lion King II: Simba's Pride

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests