New episode 'Lions of the outlands'?

[Elton John]

There is an upcoming episode that focuses more on Kion, Kiara and Nala. Not exactly what you want since the Guard is still in it...but there will likely be more episodes where Kion isn't with the guard.

[Squeely]

Fingers crossed for more episodes featuring the Guard less, then. I love them, don't get me wrong, but I don't think a few episodes per season not featuring them would hurt. The Outsiders, Tiifu and Zuri, Simba and Nala, Rafiki... There's so much to explore, and with 26 episodes per season, it's not like the Guard wouldn't still enjoy the lion's share.

[Panpardus]

[quote="The Lionvengers"]There is an upcoming episode that focuses more on Kion, Kiara and Nala. Not exactly what you want since the Guard is still in it...but there will likely be more episodes where Kion isn't with the guard.[/quote]

I'm really looking forward to that one, just because we presumably get to see Nala being a mother. Plus, Kiara and Kion have had all of maybe three scenes now where they actually interact with each other at all.

Returning to the meat of this post-episode discussion, I agree with or at least like everyone's points here regarding the missed potential that was Zira and Kion's possible evil mentor-student relationship. I guess to kind of close up my thoughts on this episode overall, this more or less was a perfect example of why I didn't really want Zira to show up and play a major onscreen role, at least not for this episode. I was expecting a lot more interaction between the Outsider siblings and the Guard, and maybe just have Zira make a single short cameo towards the end of the episode to foreshadow whatever arc Disney decides to go with in later seasons. At this point I don't see much use for the Outsiders as a whole other than just recurring run-of-the-mill baddies. (Vitani's really the only character who came through for me; I could see her alone being a problem.)

Also, I know we've all been focused on Zira for obvious reasons, but am I the only one who was disappointed by Kovu? I don't mean him having a 'teenage' voice but rather just his characterization as kind of a wimp. Like, there's a difference between being non-confrontational versus being meek, and he seemed very meek here; spineless almost, and it seemed very out of character. I'm sure he'll be back on the show at some point (he'll probably even get a song) but it's almost like he hasn't been in training for months by this point. I feel like that was the genuinely disappointing part of the episode for me, moreso than how the episode itself actually ended.

[Squeely]

I was fine with Kovu, but his lack of intensity did strike me as odd. I get that thinking of Kiara probably brought the real, good Kovu out, but it was still a bit off that he lacked any sense of darkness. Kovu would have been training for many months, perhaps over a year, being taught only hate. The timeskip between the first time Kovu met Kiara and now would have to be roughly that, for Kion to grow into a cub between then and now.

[SimbasGuard]

I do not see Kion as a hypocrite, The Guard chases away predators that do not belong in The Pride Lands. Those that upset The Circle of Life. Kion only goes into Janja's territory when circumstances force him to as in The Mbali Fields Migration. When Kion does go into The Out Lands it is not to hunt in The Outlanders territory and disrupt their ecosystem.

I see The Circle of Life (From an in story prospective) as the law of nature. Not as something The Lions created, but something that simply is. How else would Outlanders like Jasiri's Clan know about (let alone embrace) the ideals of The Circle Of Life if the concept was created by The Lions of The Pride Lands?

I don't see Simba as a tyrant, because while he is indeed The King. He understands that a King's job is to serve his subjects. As evidenced in The Rise Of Makuu: Kion and Kiara ask why as King Simba doesn't stop The Mashindano. He tells them that As King he must respect the customs and traditions of all animals. The Mashindano did not turn out as Simba wanted, but he accepted the results and did not seek to overturn them.

As for Kovu being spineless, he stood up to Nuka when he wanted to attack Jasiri and as for him running away at the end. It was 6 against 1, retreat was the best course of action. While Zira must have been training Kovu rather hard before this episode, all we know for sure in this episode is that The Brainwashing has yet to sink in.

I get how The Roar being too powerful is an issue. Kion could conceivably defeat anyone.

aside from the penalty of using The Roar for evil we also know that The Roar is affected by Kion's emotional state when he uses it. Kion must have control of his emotions, in order to control The Roar.

I have also notice these other seeming limitations of The Roar's Power:

The Roar has a limited range, it seems that Kion needs to be close enough to clearly see what he wants The Roar of affect.

Kion has not yet used The Roar in rapid succession. Perhaps after Kion uses The Roar it takes a short amount of time before he can use it again.

The most important thing the series has established regarding The Roar is that Kion treats it as an ace in the hole. It is his last resort not his opening move. Despite the fact that he was quick to use The Roar on The Ardwolves in Too Many Termites, but he thought he was dealing with Janja's Clan who The Guard had chased away every night that week.

I don't think The Roar needs an actual weakness per-say, but more defined limitations could be a good thing.

As for Vitani, she got the least amount of screen time out of all The Outsiders. I would love to see her again.

[Panpardus]

[quote="SimbasGuard"]
As for Kovu being spineless, he stood up to Nuka when he wanted to attack Jasiri. As for when he ran away at the end, it was 6 against 1. Retreating was the smart movie. As for how much training Kovu had received by this episode, all we know for sure is that the brainwashing had yet to take effect.[/quote]

I guess what I'm trying to get at is that he didn't have an edge here. Even though he's not really a 2-dimensional character in the film, he always had a bit of a bite to him when it came to facing presumed enemies. For instance, his first interaction with Kiara was him going on the offensive, snarling and at least trying to be intimidating. In this episode, when Nuka is attacked by Kion, Kovu just sort of waltzes over and seems almost uncaring about the fact that his brother is currently being pinned by this stranger intruding in their territory. Plus, regardless of how old we think these lions actually are, Kovu's still older and larger than Kion, so it doesn't seem logical or in character for him to not have a more immediate and aggressive reaction to this younger cub. It also would've made his excitement about Kiara a bit more of a surprise to the audience unfamiliar with The Lion King II's storyline.

As for the ending, I'm not saying he should've stood and fought; I kind of liked how they played him off there.

[SimbaPrescott]

I think most of my own opinions have already been stated. Loved the ep, found it a tad bit hard to swallow when Kion pushed a fully grown lioness out of his way, and I really wished Vitani had more of a role. But seriously, I did enjoy the episode thoroughly. Especially those lil baby hyenas!

Also, Disney have been seriously tackling the uploaded clips on youtube. They've been blocking loads of 3 minute clips from various users for some reason. It's kinda weird, because this is the first episode since ROTR where they've been doing that. And since they get the money from the videos whenever they get watched...

[SimbasGuard]

[quote="Panpardus"]I guess what I'm trying to get at is that he didn't have an edge here. Even though he's not really a 2-dimensional character in the film, he always had a bit of a bite to him when it came to facing presumed enemies. For instance, his first interaction with Kiara was him going on the offensive, snarling and at least trying to be intimidating. In this episode, when Nuka is attacked by Kion, Kovu just sort of waltzes over and seems almost uncaring about the fact that his brother is currently being pinned by this stranger intruding in their territory. Plus, regardless of how old we think these lions actually are, Kovu's still older and larger than Kion, so it doesn't seem logical or in character for him to not have a more immediate and aggressive reaction to this younger cub. It also would've made his excitement about Kiara a bit more of a surprise to the audience unfamiliar with The Lion King II's storyline.

As for the ending, I'm not saying he should've stood and fought; I kind of liked how they played him off there.[/quote]

Oh O.K. now I get it. Perhaps Kovu's laid back attitude toward Kion pinning Nuka could be due to, his not really caring that Nuka was in a compromising position (He did seem rather embarrassed to admit Nuka was his brother). I am very sure Kovu would have shown some aggression toward Kion if it had been Vitani that he pinned. (That would have also been a more impressive feat by Kion). It could also be that Kovu felt guilty about taking The Hyena's waterhole.

[quote="SimbaPrescott"]I found it a tad bit hard to swallow when Kion pushed a fully grown lioness out of his way,[/quote]

[quote="Squeely"]With regards to Kion winning fights, it didn't bother me. Most of what he did was outmaneuvering and hitting lionesses at just the right time. Proves Kion is a great fighter since he uses tactics and size of his opponents to his advantage.[/quote]

[Lionkingview]

So i did a thing

[Panpardus]

Bruh...