New episode 'Lions of the outlands'?

[Nilla]

@TTB-Kun So it's working then? Love you too!

@Panpardus, what is that exactly? Can it be used with other streaming services? Useful link!

[escobea1]

I do agree that the show has flaws Panpardus. Kion's roar prevents tension and his friends acting overly cutesy is often eye rolling material. I just see every episode as if a kid was telling me a story with toys. Some things come up as strange and simplistic but I admire that they're paying attention to the Lion King and making some cute moments.

[Hatari05]

[quote="Panpardus"]So I'm just going to jump right into it; major spoiler alert in case you haven't seen the episode yet.

Spoiler: show

So first things first. I was actually pretty cool with the episode -- save for the throw-away line from Rafiki about "This happened before you were born" that threw off the timeline, but I chalk it up to him just getting old and saying stuff that isn't necessarily accurate; happens to the best of us at any age, really -- and everything that was happening up until the final confrontation. That's when it went downhill fast.

Firstly, in terms of how Zira acted throughout the episode, the toning down really became apparent when Kion started openly defying her coercion and she brought in her lionesses. Before you insert your standard paragraph on why this should've been expected, hear me out. The thing is, they were doing a pretty good job at making her genuinely frightening and threatening, or at least enough that she was still recognizable as the Zira we all know and love. To this end, the song was actually pretty good; the voice actor's delivery was appropriately powerfully ruthless and maniacal (to me anyway), a lot more than I was expecting actually, so it proved to me that Disney was fully willing and capable of selling the character and the threat she posed even within the confines of a preschool-targeting show. However, once it got to the point where she had Kion trapped in the little ravine and gave her ultimatum, she lost the intensity and just became more sniveling than aggressive. I think it was Hatari who mentioned before that even Janja has consistently sounded more genuinely threatening than Zira was towards the end of this episode, and that's very true. I really was expecting her to be on the level of Makuu and Makucha (who I've always thought was a precursor to Zira in virtually every aspect), but Disney really dropped the ball there.

Secondly, even if she was so watered down that she seemed to crumble at the first sign of open opposition from Kion, she still had a trump card to play in the technicalities of the roar. Zira knowing more about its capabilities than Kion was a great way to ratchet up the drama, and putting him in a situation in which he could actually lose it was an added extra step that I liked and wasn't expecting. But having the standard trope of the villain not understanding black-and-white morality really crippled the last scene. Even still, having Kion actually use the roar here was such an unnecessary copout; he could've just threatened to use it and Zira would've called off the attack at the last minute when she realized she was at least temporarily beaten. At that point she could back off while still retaining her villainous aura, in much the same way as the show has so far treated Makucha and Makuu, which would've left a better impression on the audience for any future appearances she'd make, because they'd know she was still Kion's most dangerous enemy. At this point she's on par with Reirei, at least as presented in this show. (Mind you, Kion hasn't actually used the roar against the jackals at this point.)

Final thing: Kion's roar blew the Outsiders into the area of the termite mounds, and the dialogue is supposed to imply that they've never lived there before, nor even seen the place. Straight-up fail on part of the show, because if they're acknowledging the events of Simba's Pride and have even explicitly said that the entirety of The Lion Guard takes place post-"My Lullaby", then there's absolutely no reason for this gag. They really just stepped in it, and it did not have to end that way; it was just an arbitrary attempt at a callback that failed harder than most of the references in Return of the Roar.

All this said, it was still among the best episodes of the series' run so far, just for everything that happens up until that certain point. Such a shame that it misfired when it did and punches were pulled where they were, and I stress that none of the problems that I took issue with are even predicated on the fact that this is still ultimately a preschool show; it was just sloppy writing and execution. And again, I'm saying all of this having accepted that the harder elements of the franchise (accurate fight 'choreography' (lions don't headbutt; no clue why they constantly opt for that move), moral grey areas, etc.) are not really going to be a thing that The Lion Guard is going to try and tackle.

[/quote]

Like you I was enjoying Zira until near the end I had a few issues like Zira showing her hand way too soon. She had Kion eating out of her paw why did she say what she said? Zira waited many years to put her plan in LK II into motion I see no reason Zira didn't keep her intentions to herself and keep stringing Kion along.

Another way you could've had almost the same episode but establish Zira as the guards biggest threat is have her tell Kion if he resists one of her pride members will kill Jasiri. I know that's dark but Janga Makuu and other villains have very openly threatened to murder people so I don't see the big deal here. As I said from the beginning Zira should've won this episode in some form.

Have her give Kion a choice she is holding someone captive and will kill them if Kion doesn't surrender control of the outlands she then tells him he can roar though he might kill his friend like he almost killed his mother, resulting in Kion agreeing to Zira's terms, who reveals the whole thing was a trial showing that the guard and Kion cannot yet defend the reign of the lions. To further win their good grace Zira agrees to keep Jasiri and her clan provided for and live in peace among them. Kion's lack of faith in himself to use the roar sets up Zira becoming a dark mentor for season 2.

Same episode but very different ending that sets the stage for more and allows you to use Zira without having to go full serialization.

[Panpardus]

[quote="Nilla"]
@Panpardus, what is that exactly? Can it be used with other streaming services? Useful link![/quote]

I don't know the answer to that question. It was linked in the comments section on a Deviantart page after "Janja's New Crew" came out, and I've found it more reliable than Kisscartoon, so.

[TTB-Kun]

[quote="Nilla"]@TTB-Kun So it's working then? Love you too!

@Panpardus, what is that exactly? Can it be used with other streaming services? Useful link![/quote]
i can't open it with my media players, but i added it to my dropbox and i was able to see it from the browser

[TTB-Kun]

[quote="ScarXZira10889"]Hi all! I just watched the episode and I was a bit disappointed because Rafiki didn't say anything about the father/fathers of Zira's cubs. When he says "Zira's family" does that kill off the possibility of any of them being Scar's?:( But Zira also says that she was quite "close" to Scar. Sorry for any spoilers.[/quote]
it was already not a possibilities as i said, it's Zira's family, not Scar's

[ScarXZira10889]

So? Maybe they couldn't even be bothered to mention the cubs? -.-

[ScarXZira10889]

@Nila Rafiki said "Zira's family". Does that kill of the chance of Nuka being Scar's son?

[TTB-Kun]

anyway

The episode was... meh, i mean, our expectation were pretty high and as i said before i was expecting to be disappointed, well, in the end it wasn't sure a masterpice but it wasn't also all that bad for me.
Seeing Kovu was the best thing, i loved how he reacted to the possibility of seeing Kiara again <3
I noticed Kovu is slightly bigger than Kion, Just as he should be, since he's older

[Nilla]

[quote="ScarXZira10889"]@Nila Rafiki said "Zira's family". Does that kill of the chance of Nuka being Scar's son?[/quote]

Are you asking for my opinion on this? I am honored

IMO, this episode confirmed that vitani, nuka, and kovu are zira's kids. We know that kovu wan't scar's son, so she must've mated with someone else at some point. Kovu and Nuka aren't littermates, so it's possible That zira had Nuka with Scar and Kovu with someone else. I doubt that'd ever be made canon bc family values or something, they probably wouldn't want to say that zira mated with two different lions! But there's definitely room to headcanon it in there without conflicting with what's already been said.

edit: some evidence with direct quotes from the episode:
Zira: "Think about it while I fetch my children." About Kovu, Nuka, and Vitani.
Now, they could be adopted and she'd probably still refer to them as her children. Or, she could've been saying children referring to Kovu and Vitani and she got Nuka too because he was there with them. But either of those are stretching it. I think it's safe to assume that the outlander cubs are Zira's.

Zira: "Scar and I were close, very close."
Before, we didn't know if Zira even knew Scar, or if she was just a fan. Now we know that they were very close. They could've mated, who knows.