New episode 'Lions of the outlands'?

[Panpardus]

So I'm just going to jump right into it; major spoiler alert in case you haven't seen the episode yet.

[spoiler]So first things first. I was actually pretty cool with the episode -- save for the throw-away line from Rafiki about "This happened before you were born" that threw off the timeline, but I chalk it up to him just getting old and saying stuff that isn't necessarily accurate; happens to the best of us at any age, really -- and everything that was happening up until the final confrontation. That's when it went downhill fast.

Firstly, in terms of how Zira acted throughout the episode, the toning down really became apparent when Kion started openly defying her coercion and she brought in her lionesses. Before you insert your standard paragraph on why this should've been expected, hear me out. The thing is, they were doing a pretty good job at making her genuinely frightening and threatening, or at least enough that she was still recognizable as the Zira we all know and love. To this end, the song was actually pretty good; the voice actor's delivery was appropriately powerfully ruthless and maniacal (to me anyway), a lot more than I was expecting actually, so it proved to me that Disney was fully willing and capable of selling the character and the threat she posed even within the confines of a preschool-targeting show. However, once it got to the point where she had Kion trapped in the little ravine and gave her ultimatum, she lost the intensity and just became more sniveling than aggressive. I think it was Hatari who mentioned before that even Janja has consistently sounded more genuinely threatening than Zira was towards the end of this episode, and that's very true. I really was expecting her to be on the level of Makuu and Makucha (who I've always thought was a precursor to Zira in virtually every aspect), but Disney really dropped the ball there.

Secondly, even if she was so watered down that she seemed to crumble at the first sign of open opposition from Kion, she still had a trump card to play in the technicalities of the roar. Zira knowing more about its capabilities than Kion was a great way to ratchet up the drama, and putting him in a situation in which he could actually lose it was an added extra step that I liked and wasn't expecting. But having the standard trope of the villain not understanding black-and-white morality really crippled the last scene. Even still, having Kion actually use the roar here was such an unnecessary copout; he could've just threatened to use it and Zira would've called off the attack at the last minute when she realized she was at least temporarily beaten. At that point she could back off while still retaining her villainous aura, in much the same way as the show has so far treated Makucha and Makuu, which would've left a better impression on the audience for any future appearances she'd make, because they'd know she was still Kion's most dangerous enemy. At this point she's on par with Reirei, at least as presented in this show. (Mind you, Kion hasn't actually used the roar against the jackals at this point.)

Final thing: Kion's roar blew the Outsiders into the area of the termite mounds, and the dialogue is supposed to imply that they've never lived there before, nor even seen the place. Straight-up fail on part of the show, because if they're acknowledging the events of Simba's Pride and have even explicitly said that the entirety of The Lion Guard takes place post-"My Lullaby", then there's absolutely no reason for this gag. They really just stepped in it, and it did not have to end that way; it was just an arbitrary attempt at a callback that failed harder than most of the references in Return of the Roar.

All this said, it was still among the best episodes of the series' run so far, just for everything that happens up until that certain point. Such a shame that it misfired when it did and punches were pulled where they were, and I stress that none of the problems that I took issue with are even predicated on the fact that this is still ultimately a preschool show; it was just sloppy writing and execution. And again, I'm saying all of this having accepted that the harder elements of the franchise (accurate fight 'choreography' (lions don't headbutt; no clue why they constantly opt for that move), moral grey areas, etc.) are not really going to be a thing that The Lion Guard is going to try and tackle.[/spoiler]

[escobea1]

I understand your frustration. I have no say in this show. All I can do is enjoy what I can and move on. I have read fan stories and seen wonderful art that provide more plausible stories in the Lion King world than the show has done. Is the roar silly? I think so. Are there things I do not like about the premise? There's plenty. The show is what it is. It's an inoffensive super hero show that shows lessons. What's done is done. It's the way Disney decided to approach new Lion King media. I have no answer to that choice but I will admit the show has it's cute moments and character interactions (Nala and Kion's forgiveness talk)

[Nilla]

I'm trying to figure out the best way to download it. I got the video, but it's missing the sound, I need to figure that out. In the mean time if anyone wants the video for gif making purposes or anything hmu

[Panpardus]

[quote="escobea1"]I understand your frustration. I have no say in this show. All I can do is enjoy what I can and move on. I have read fan stories and seen wonderful art that provide more plausible stories in the Lion King world than the show has done. Is the roar silly? I think so. Are there things I do not like about the premise? There's plenty. The show is what it is. It's an inoffensive super hero show that shows lessons. What's done is done. It's the way Disney decided to approach new Lion King media. I have no answer to that choice but I will admit the show has it's cute moments and character interactions (Nala and Kion's forgiveness talk)[/quote]

That's the same feeling I have at the end of the day. I'm not personally devastated or anything; it's a little kids show on Disney Jr., (bigger fish to fry, you know?) and I hope that's not the case for a lot of people, though I can easily see it happening. I was just writing from what I hope is as objective a point of view as possible when it comes to show quality and franchise continuity. Like, if we're going to review the show, let's really review it. I'm interested in seeing what other people say on it.

[Nilla]

okay guys. This video may or may not have sound. It turns out something wonky happened when I downloaded the video downloader and I'm not hearing sound on my computer at all. I'm gonna fix that, but you can download the video here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sl615q2uen4sa ... s.mp4?dl=0

I don't know if it's just me, but I could only get the video to play on some media players. My default, Windows Media Player, didn't want to play it, but it played in Media Player Lite. If it doesn't work for you, try right clicking on the file, hovering over "Open With" and selecting a different video player. And sorry if there's no sound, I have no way of checking right now!

[escobea1]

Oops Panpardus. That message was for Aelwen. I wanted to relate to her/him somehow. I think the show is awesome overall. I need to stop showing shame in what I like that's for sure. To Aelwen: I like the show. Let's agree to disagree. My final opinion is that the Lion Guard is a show I have been dreaming of for years (One that's focused on the Pridelands with episodic adventures) and there's nothing to be ashamed about when you're excited for every episode.

[TTB-Kun]

[quote="Nilla"]okay guys. This video may or may not have sound. It turns out something wonky happened when I downloaded the video downloader and I'm not hearing sound on my computer at all. I'm gonna fix that, but you can download the video here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sl615q2uen4sa ... s.mp4?dl=0

I don't know if it's just me, but I could only get the video to play on some media players. My default, Windows Media Player, didn't want to play it, but it played in Media Player Lite. If it doesn't work for you, try right clicking on the file, hovering over "Open With" and selecting a different video player. And sorry if there's no sound, I have no way of checking right now![/quote]
I LOVE YOU!

[Ninclow]

[quote="Aelwen"]-Kion throwing away all adult lions like some papers... BULLSHIT![/quote]

I was afraid he would. I can see Nuka or even a lioness try to throw themselves over him and he once or twice might leap aside so that they, before they can stop themselves, hit a stone "wall" or tumble to the ground, but that he can psychically go toe to toe with fully grown lions? That's just stupid. What the heck would it have cost the creators to - I don't know, have Simba and Nala appear to help him out, or Beshti? I have little difficulty seeing beshti throwing lanky evil lionesses around.

[ScarXZira10889]

Hi all! I just watched the episode and I was a bit disappointed because Rafiki didn't say anything about the father/fathers of Zira's cubs. When he says "Zira's family" does that kill off the possibility of any of them being Scar's?:( But Zira also says that she was quite "close" to Scar. Sorry for any spoilers.

[Panpardus]

My bad eascobea1. What I said still stands, but yeah.

Side note: because I'm a college student without a television, this is where I watch the episodes; hasn't given me any problems actually, unlike Kisscartoon. (http://result.dabblet.com/gist/59d3c9b7698618ab8189)