To those that "hate" TLG, and what i think about it

[gothprincesskiara]

Ive been thinking about what you said Kion, but I think we all had higher and hopeful expectations that would end up not being met because a lot of us are older and advanced fans who some of had either Done fan art, read deep fan fiction, and surfed the web of other past fans in history, which I have all done in my experience, and having those fan made experiences its hard not to escape those wishful thinking fantasies. And the way the Lion Guard is is completely nothing like what other fans had come up with in the past, I mean sure I have read alot of PG-13 fan fiction that had magic in it but nothing like this.

[KionofTheLionGuard]

[quote="gothprincesskiara"]Ive been thinking about what you said Kion, but I think we all had higher and hopeful expectations that would end up not being met because a lot of us are older and advanced fans who some of had either Done fan art, read deep fan fiction, and surfed the web of other past fans in history, which I have all done in my experience, and having those fan made experiences its hard not to escape those wishful thinking fantasies. And the way the Lion Guard is is completely nothing like what other fans had come up with in the past, I mean sure I have read alot of PG-13 fan fiction that had magic in it but nothing like this.[/quote]

It's alright. Besides, there was never a time when i said that TLG couldn't be enjoyed by adults too. In fact, i think according to a site about TV ratings and views i saw, TLG was Disney's most successful TV movie thus far. And according to the kids and adult view ratio's, it was about half in half believe it or not!

There were still more kids that watched TLG rather than adults, but i never thought that it'd be almost 50/50.

[Troll Berserker]

I think all this hate is ridiculous. Not because I say that you can't hate TLG, but because people are being so extremely dumb about it without acknowledging basic facts surrounding the show even characters' genders. The people who whine about it the most are the ones that are butthurt over TLG not being their dream headcanon/fanfic story.

Here are a few simplified butthurts:
* "THEY RUINED THE SERIES because it's not about things I wanted it to be" - You can't please everyone. Why won't you just give it a chance as it is instead of complaining about Disney not hiring you as storywriter?
* "THEY RUINED THE SERIES because it should've been about Kopa" - Exactly the same butthurt as around Simba's Pride. I'm not gonna repeat myself why a minor fanfic-ish book character [s]suck[/s] is not gonna appear. Ever.
* "THEY RUINED THE SERIES because it's for little kids" - And how old were you when you first watched Lion King if not about the target age of TLG? I'm sorry, I didn't know that Lion King fanbase is only for 20+ people who complain on the internet about stuff nobody cares about.
* "THEY RUINED THE SERIES because there is this one character I don't like" - Just because you don't like one or two character it doesn't necessary mean that the whole show is bad or that it ruined the whole franchise. Get over it.
* "THEY RUINED THE SERIES because they are changing the story" - There's still a posibility for all the three movies to co-exist. Badly explained? Maybe. But plot holes? I don't see any.
* "THEY RUINED THE SERIES because the fanbase is being stupid" - The only stupid person in fanbase is you...

[Gyramuur]

I don't think the "target age group" thing is pertinent. The original Lion King movie was a kids film; The Land Before Time was a kids film; Friendship is Magic is a show designed for young girls; Steven Universe is a kids show; Fox and the Hound, Robin Hood, Jungle Book were all kids films. Point is, just because it's made for kids doesn't mean it has to be dumbed down to the point of stagnation.

My main issue with TLG is that during my entire time watching it, I barely felt a single thing. There was no depth, no cleverness to it whatsoever; it was all bland and predictable. There was nothing that happened that made me feel emotionally invested into what I was watching aside from the one short "can you feel the love tonight?" joke which was admittedly pretty clever.

The sole purpose of entertainment is to entertain and provoke an emotional response, so if I spend 40 minutes of my life watching something and I feel absolutely nothing, then in my mind that constitutes a complete failure on behalf of whoever made that show/movie/whatever. Of course, different strokes for different folks--but that brings me to a different point.

I fully realize that the people who worked on Disney back in the days of the original film aren't around anymore. That shouldn't be an excuse to perpetuate poor quality. Also, by choosing to make the writing extremely simplified, they run the risk of alienating their older fans such as myself. I'm no expert, but if you're in the field of making money that seems like a bad business ethic. As aforementioned, just because it's for kids doesn't mean it has to be utterly unenjoyable for older audiences. And that doesn't mean that it has to be all serious or have a traumatic event like Mufasa's death; you can weave an interesting narrative without those sorts of things and still manage to make something that's compelling to both children and adults. I highly doubt TLK would have gone down in history as a great film if they had designed it solely with kids in mind.

Maybe I'm just a cynic, and maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I should be grateful that there's at least something else out there that's TLK-themed--but I can't. I can't look past the predictable writing, and the uninteresting characters (that popped into the TLK universe out of absolutely nowhere), and Kion being given basically a fix-all solution right off the bat, and going back on what the earlier films had already established, and the deus ex fart at the end, and the complete lack of anything that would allow me to feel an emotional connection with the characters or what was happening.

This film completely dropped the ball for me, which is unfortunate considering I managed to garner quite a bit of enjoyment from TLK's mediocre sequels. I went into this film ambivalent, not really expecting anything great; I came out thoroughly disappointed.

Who knows, I'm sure plenty of kids will enjoy this and will rave about it for years. But for me, a veteran fan of the series, it just doesn't work for me. I think I just need to accept the fact that Disney's never going to produce another good Lion King film, and I guess that's fine; besides, I got my perfect film twenty-one years ago, and there'll never be another one like it. Doesn't mean I can't dream, though.

[KionofTheLionGuard]

[quote="Gyramuur"]I don't think the "target age group" thing is pertinent. The original Lion King movie was a kids film; The Land Before Time was a kids film; Friendship is Magic is a show designed for young girls; Steven Universe is a kids show; Fox and the Hound, Robin Hood, Jungle Book were all kids films. Point is, just because it's made for kids doesn't mean it has to be dumbed down to the point of stagnation.

My main issue with TLG is that during my entire time watching it, I barely felt a single thing. There was no depth, no cleverness to it whatsoever; it was all bland and predictable. There was nothing that happened that made me feel emotionally invested into what I was watching aside from the one short "can you feel the love tonight?" joke which was admittedly pretty clever.

The sole purpose of entertainment is to entertain and provoke an emotional response, so if I spend 40 minutes of my life watching something and I feel absolutely nothing, then in my mind that constitutes a complete failure on behalf of whoever made that show/movie/whatever. Of course, different strokes for different folks--but that brings me to a different point.

I fully realize that the people who worked on Disney back in the days of the original film aren't around anymore. That shouldn't be an excuse to perpetuate poor quality. Also, by choosing to make the writing extremely simplified, they run the risk of alienating their older fans such as myself. I'm no expert, but if you're in the field of making money that seems like a bad business ethic. As aforementioned, just because it's for kids doesn't mean it has to be utterly unenjoyable for older audiences. And that doesn't mean that it has to be all serious or have a traumatic event like Mufasa's death; you can weave an interesting narrative without those sorts of things and still manage to make something that's compelling to both children and adults. I highly doubt TLK would have gone down in history as a great film if they had designed it solely with kids in mind.

Maybe I'm just a cynic, and maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I should be grateful that there's at least something else out there that's TLK-themed--but I can't. I can't look past the predictable writing, and the uninteresting characters (that popped into the TLK universe out of absolutely nowhere), and Kion being given basically a fix-all solution right off the bat, and going back on what the earlier films had already established, and the deus ex fart at the end, and the complete lack of anything that would allow me to feel an emotional connection with the characters or what was happening.

This film completely dropped the ball for me, which is unfortunate considering I managed to garner quite a bit of enjoyment from TLK's mediocre sequels. I went into this film ambivalent, not really expecting anything great; I came out thoroughly disappointed.

Who knows, I'm sure plenty of kids will enjoy this and will rave about it for years. But for me, a veteran fan of the series, it just doesn't work for me. I think I just need to accept the fact that Disney's never going to produce another good Lion King film, and I guess that's fine; besides, I got my perfect film twenty-one years ago, and there'll never be another one like it. Doesn't mean I can't dream, though.[/quote]

That's what fanfiction is for

Or artwork, which ever one you prefer.

[Gaze]

in response to Gyramuur

I don't think it's fair to say that the original TLK is a kids' film in the same way that TLG is a kids' show. TLK and similar disney films may be appropriate for children, but they aren't aimed solely at children - they're pretty clearly intended to be enjoyable for children of all ages, and for their families. with TLG, while I do think parents can enjoy watching it too, it's definitely intended for a more specific age group (kids 8 and under) than the original TLK.

yeah, shows aimed at this age group can definitely be entertaining for older children, teenagers, and even adults. I do think TLG succeeds at this for the most part. but at the same time, those young kids 8 and under deserve something that is made with the intent of entertaining them. it's fine for the older audience to occasionally be brushed aside for the sake of entertaining the rly young children, IMO.
so yeah, while I'm with you on not particularly enjoying bits like the deus ex fart (LOL!! at that description btw), I'm sure lots of kids thought that was hilarious. while I'm over here rolling my eyes @ that, disappointed that the movie's climactic rescue scene is solved with a fart joke.....I can accept it for the sake of all those lil kids who I can only assume totally loved it.

I'm not trying to change your mind, because I think it's completely fine that you don't enjoy the characters and didn't feel emotionally invested, but I guess I just feel it's worth saying that Disney did try there and should be given a little credit. at least, that's how it looks in my eyes, as I did feel very emotionally invested in RotR.

that's probably just because I'm a total baby and any expression of love, kindness, or positivity in children's media has the ability to make me want to weep with appreciation and hope for future generations. LOL. so little things like Bunga's support of Kion, Tiifu's sweet judgment-free reassurance in response to Zuri's pathetic whining, the teamwork of the Lion Guard, Bunga's unapologetically enthusiastic life philosophy, and Kion's ultimate ability to prove himself right in front of all his family and friends......all made me feel very invested in the story and characters. I think there is a certain depth here (my favorite example still being Tiifu, as mentioned before, because I feel that her brief dialogue reveals an incredible amount about her character and sends home a good message).

I mean, overall your criticisms are very well expressed and totally valid. I'm not at all irritated by your viewpoints, but more so by people who seem to think it's 'all about them' and are expressing what appears to be actual anger.

I can admit that I'm probably easy to please. RotR is cute, it's positive, it's pretty to look at, and there's gonna be merch. that's all I can truly ask for. but I still view it as having gone above and beyond the call of duty.

[gothprincesskiara]

See for me, I just wish I had the fantasy that Star Wars fans has, and forever on going franchise, everywhere you go star war star war star wars, and it breaks my heart that TLk doesn't have that, cause thats how I feel about Lion King, the same way star wars fans feel, it just bugs me that we dont have that luxury. and its this show that makes it worse now that other fans hate it.

[Gyramuur]

To Kion: Haha yeah, fan creations are where it's at. I think if anyone's going to make a true successor to the first film, it would have to be in fan-fiction or fan-comic format, as I don't think Disney's ever going to do it themselves.

To Sadiki: I get what you're saying. I think I watched it less from the viewpoint of how I might feel if I was a little kid watching the film and more as someone who was blown away with the first film and has felt disappointment with each subsequent release, the latest feeling like the worst of the bunch.

Maybe I shouldn't hold the series to such high standards anymore, but that's hard to do since TLK was the first film I've ever seen and it's one I have extremely fond memories of; it's something I can always come back to and watch and enjoy, whereas the later films, while decent in their own regard, I might only watch every once in a blue moon. On the other hand (or paw, if you prefer), I watched Lion Guard once and I feel like that's enough. I'm not saying that TLG doesn't have merits of its own; it actually has a lot going for it.

For example, the animation, while stiff in places, is actually pretty darn good; the style is also really beautiful, as one would expect a TLK film to be. In a world that's quickly being dominated by 3d animation where 2d is getting the boot, it's really great to see some decent 2d animation still out there. I prefer my cartoons to be 2d, myself--maybe I'm old-fashioned, lol. Also, the music doesn't live up to the quality of the first film, but it's pretty great in its own regard. I'm personally fond of "Tonight We Strike"; that whole "laugh/singing" sequence is nice and catchy. Zuka Zama is also great, but it feels vaguely similar to "Diggah Tunnah".

Maybe someday I'll watch TLG again. Since I've already watched it once and had my expectations crushed (and they weren't very high to begin with), perhaps the second time around I can just sit back and enjoy it for what it's worth. But for now, it's just not working for me.

To gothprincesskiara: I totally feel ya. I wish TLK was as huge as other franchises, because it holds a super special place in my heart. Sadly I don't think that's ever going to happen, but it's still nice to fantasize about.

[Squeely]

I think the TLG hate is completely unjustified. I'm fine if someone doesn't like TLG, but nearly every comment I see on YouTube or Facebook is "This is awful how could Disney make this! MUH CHILDHOODS!" as if TLG somehow lessens the original film in any way, shape, or form. The funniest thing is, Disney already made a show that altered the designs of the characters roughly as much as TLG has, yet a lot of the complainers don't bring that up, or even better, say things like "But the Timon and Pumbaa show was at least funny!" I just don't understand how so many people can act like TLG is the antichrist. I personally am glad we're getting new Lion King content that's at least decent (*glares at TLK 1 1/2*). It's a heck of a lot better than the ten years of nothing we've had.

[KionofTheLionGuard]

[quote="Squeely"]I think the TLG hate is completely unjustified. I'm fine if someone doesn't like TLG, but nearly every comment I see on YouTube or Facebook is "This is awful how could Disney make this! MUH CHILDHOODS!" as if TLG somehow lessens the original film in any way, shape, or form. The funniest thing is, Disney already made a show that altered the designs of the characters roughly as much as TLG has, yet a lot of the complainers don't bring that up, or even better, say things like "But the Timon and Pumbaa show was at least funny!" I just don't understand how so many people can act like TLG is the antichrist. I personally am glad we're getting new Lion King content that's at least decent (*glares at TLK 1 1/2*). It's a heck of a lot better than the ten years of nothing we've had.[/quote]

There's one reason why people nowadays like to hate on everything. "BEECUZ ET'S WHUT THA KOOL KIDZ DEW!!!11!!!1!"

Nothing new there honestly.