Zira

[Misiziri]

Perhaps if there had been no Zira... there may have been no Scar 0_o *Dun Dun Dun*

lulz

[Jiirani]

No, because Scar was in the first movie, and Zira wasn't. If Zira affected Scar's presence there would be no TLK, because Scar wouldn'[t be there to kill Mufasa o.e

[Misiziri]

Perhaps... you are right. But who knows how things could've turned out. The thing that makes me so upset is... WHERE WAS SARABI WHEN ALL OF THIS STUFF WENT DOWN?

[Jiirani]

Um, probably at Pride Rock trusting Scar to look after Simba?

[Misiziri]

Why would she trust that brute? Maybe she was out hunting, idk.

[Jiirani]

Well, It doesn't really matter. Either way she wasn't there.

[atouchofgrace]

Hummm...

[SuperBabySimba]

Continues from here.

Regarding that Zira isn't shown fighting in the end battle, fighting for Scar--I had said:

Simba tells Nala to find Sarabi and the other lioness'. I always filled up that hole by imagening Nala and no one else either just chose not to alarm Zira about Simba's return, knowing she'd fight for Scar because of her own son having been chosen as the next king so she could not allow Simba to be back and because she probably was a Scar fangirl already--or perhaps they didn't alarm Zira because she had such young cubs as Kovu and Vitani to take care of and somebody had to stay and watch over them. Zira cuold've also been out hunting or somewhere far away with her cub so that they didn't even find her. It doesn't take long for the lionmess' to appear at the scene so Nala apparently didn't search too wide area.

[quote="LavishLioness"]You actually agree with my theory??!! I thought you were going to start poking holes in it [/quote]

I'm not sure how did my post content agree with your theory as I was talking about why she didn't fight at the end and you were talking about something else? So if you agree with what I said, then I guess I agree with your theory in those terms, as in for why she didn't fight for Scar at the end.

But as for what you told about your Zira theory... I don't fully agree with it. I think Zira was just a big fan of Scar and fantasized about being his mate and queen one day, and was very honoured that Scar chose her cub as his heir, which probably fommited her fantasy about becoming the queen. I think this way because Sarabi was still the queen at the end of TLK. Scar was the king--he could've done anything he wantd--even name Zira as the queen. But apparently he didn't, so I don't think he was in love with Zira at all, at least not madly in love. And he had no clue that his reign was about to end as he believed Simba to be dead, so I don't think he hurried in naming his heir. As in, I think Scar was alive when Kovu and Vitani were born, and they grew up couple of months before Simba returned because I'd think Scar would want to observe a cub before announcing it to become his heir. And I think Kovu just showed enough potential + as he looked a lot alike to Scar, Scar easily favoured him. Or if Kovu didn't show potential, the fact that Kovu was the younger brother and looked like Scar, may have reminded Scar about his suffering in Mufasa's shadow and that's why he chose Kovu instead of Nuka.

[quote="LavishLioness"]And then I think Zira was found in the pridelands mourning by Scar's dead body. Simba approached her and she tried to attack him. Knowing this and that she was one of Scar's heir, she was exiled. I think her exile had nothing to do with Kopa. [/quote]

I agree the exile had nothing to do with Kopa or any cub whatsoever. And that mourning at Scar's body and attacking the approaching Simba makes sense and is interesting.

I just personally don't think she did anything to deserve the exile because nothing such is stated in SP while Zira also bitterly whines and complains about the exile. The film lets on that he exiled her and the rest simply because they were Scar's heir and makes clear that Zira was an obsessed fan girl of Scar which naturally would also affect Simba's decision. And that makes sense to the fact how bitter Zira is about it--because it would literally be that they were exiled for existing and/or being themselves.

And as I've reasoned elswhere: seeing to the depths and amounts of physical and emotional suffering, pain, betrayal and traumas that Scar put Simba through in Simba's life, it makes all the sense in the world for him to exile Scar fans and heir for no other reason but being that and in efforts to ensure his family's safety. Especially when combined to how immature Simba remained because of having lead an immature life style since he was ten years old in human years. It was Kiara making him a father that finally forced him to try harder, to be an adult, but even so he wouldn't change his mind about Zira because he tried to be his father's son and keep his family safe. (Judging by his nightmare at Kovu's presence, Scar's betrayal still haunted him greatly.)

[Misiziri]

Sorry, I'm not too savvy on how to quote. So...

SuperBabySimba: "But apparently he didn't, so I don't think he was in love with Zira at all, at least not madly in love."

I think Scar was very upset with Zira because she was prego with another male's cubs. Scar seems like he would be angry about something such as that. And i think Kovu was born right before Scar died. I think Zira chose him because that's what Scar wanted himself to be. I think Scar was extremely jealous of Mufasa. He was stronger and less scrawny, had a big thick mane... I think Zira chose Kovu not only because, in her mind, she thinks it's what Scar would've wanted, but because she wanted to "keep scar alive in her memory." I think seeing a big strong Kovu as king one day would remind her of her beloved, and upon Scar seeing this from the stars (maybe he's not up there, but Zira most certainly thinks so) he would be very proud of both her and Kovu, so instead of hating him because he came from a seperate male, would appreciate him.

That's mah take anyway

[Misiziri]

It's a lot more fun 'discussing' than 'arguing'