Just Curious As To Why...

[Akril]

This is where I can't follow your dislike of Kiara TPAM, she becomes much more responsible than Simba and in the long run comes out a better lion.

It's how Kiara becomes responsible that doesn't really work for me. When she and Kovu reunite, it's clear that pretty much the only thing on her mind up until that moment was him (she isn't complete without him, as her partial reflection and several other points in the movie hint at). Her transition from "Yay, I'm reunited with my missing half" to "We've got to go back and reunite these two prides that have been divided for years" comes so suddenly that it really stretches her credibility as a character.

Compare how Simba reacts when Nala tells him he has to return to the Pride Lands. Up until he and Nala reunited, Simba was living a carefree life with no worries or responsibilities, haunted by the memory of supposedly killing his father. If Simba immediately said "You're right. I must go back and reclaim my place as king or the Pride Lands will be barren forever" when Nala told him to accept his responsibility as the future king, he wouldn't be nearly as believable a character. His transition takes time, which makes him much more believable as a character.

I can't really blame her for how she reacts to her father. Simba in SP is rather controlling and lacks a sense of where to stop when argueing.

This sort of ties back to the "Kiara is always right" point I brought up earlier. Simba acts completely different in SP than he does in TLK. He's gone from "no worries" to "all worries" when it comes to Kiara, and most of the time his OOC behavior just seems to be there to make Kiara look good. His angry argument with Kiara after Kovu is exiled paints him as an intolerant, overly protective, prejudiced jerk, and just serves to build up to the point where Kiara is justified in delivering her "You will never be Mufasa!" line (how she can fairly compare him to someone she's only heard stories about, I don't know). Likewise, his intense hatred of the Outsiders is never made clear, and the only thing that makes him see the light is Kiara telling him some words that he himself told her when she was a cub (apparently neither of them saw the irony of his singing that song to her right after his "You don't belong here! Get out!" speech to Zira a few minutes earlier).

[TheRoguePrince]

I respect your view; however, I must respectfully oppose it. Though I see where you are coming from with the odd and rather ironic growth of Kiara's personal courage and honor, I respect her for these qualities and remain rather confused as to how these end qualities are ignored in light of her somewhat troubling childhood. This is rather perplexing.

[PrincessKiara]

As a cub, Simba is excited as can be when he learns that he's going to be king, while Kiara does nothing but complain about the prospect of being queen, saying "it's no fun".

Personally, this is something I find very interesting about Kiaras character. Cub Simba thought of being King as a chance to do anything he wanted, but Cub Kiara actually realized what a massive responsibility it would lay upon her. She feels trapped by this role she`s born into and feels uncertain if she can retain her own character while being Queen. I like how Kiara seems to have a better understanding of what her future position in the Pride means.

Simba also seems to respect his father for the most part, quietly listening to his lessons and becoming thoroughly cowed when Mufasa intends to "teach him a lesson." Kiara, on the other hand, constantly interrupts her father and starts playing with a butterfly as he is telling her to be careful during the first scene we see her as a cub. She also doesn't seem to take her father's words seriously at all during the lecture he gives her after catching her with Kovu.

Especially the talk right before We Are One has always annoyed me a little, as I feel Kiara is being downright disrespectul.
When it comes to the scene at Pride Rock, she only acts this way because she`s heard it all a thousand times before, she even knows the lecture by heart!
When it comes to the other talk.. That`s more of Simba telling Kiara things she already knows and have heard so many times before (I love you, you need to be careful)
Generally, I feel Simba has none of the authority as a father that Mufasa had, in my eyes he seems so uncertain and fumbling, he doesn`t know how to deal with Kiara, so he keeps repeating the same lessons over and over, making his daughter fed up and disrespectful as she can`t take it anymore..

Spoiler: show

It`s been discussed in a different topic that Simba went easy on Kiara because he didn`t want to scare her, but in my opinion he`s just uncertain of what to say and how to deal with this.
Also, Simba didn`t know the whole story of what happened in the Outlands, he just came and found his daughter with Kovu (and Zira lurking behind) so he didn`t know about the crocodiles, perhaps he would have been angrier/more freaked out if he`d known his daughter had nearly been eaten?

As adults, when Simba is told by Nala that he must help save his homeland and take his place as king, he refuses to do it until his father's ghost appears and commands him to and Rafiki whacks him on the head with his stick. Conversely, when Kiara reunites with Kovu and he asks her to run away with her and start a pride of their own, Kiara decides that they have to face their families and stop the war in what seems like less than a minute.

I do agree that Simbas change of heart makes him more believable. With Kiara, it seems more like poor character development to me, SP is in general weaker than TLK.
Kiara sort of has a revelation when Kovu says "Hey look, we are one.." In that moment Kiara understands that just as she and Kovu are not whole without eachother, the two prides must be reunited, as they were one big pride to begin with.
Yes, it`s fast and sudden. But that`s the way it was written, and it would just be awkward if Mufasa appeared in the clouds again, commanding Kiara to take her place in the Circle of Life.

[xLilacVixenx]

Suddenly she becomes all wise and rational and wants to return to the pride she wanted nothing to do with a few hours ago.

*Cough*

If you notice, this is just like Simba's story. He lives in the Jungle as a free and lazy lion until Rafiki/Mufasa guide him to return home when he takes responsibility for his land. Kiara remembered her father's teachings and finally understood that she didn't have to run away from her home to be home, she needed to be with her family. (Including the Outlanders)

Even if this didn't make sense, she would have to make it somehow resolve because Kovu is related to the evil side. :P

[Pixie]

*Cough*

If you notice, this is just like Simba's story. He lives in the Jungle as a free and lazy lion until Rafiki/Mufasa guide him to return home when he takes responsibility for his land. Kiara remembered her father's teachings and finally understood that she didn't have to run away from her home to be home, she needed to be with her family. (Including the Outlanders)

Even if this didn't make sense, she would have to make it somehow resolve because Kovu is related to the evil side.

Exactly as I said, Simba and Kiara are simillar in ways. And what was just said, about Kiara realising because of Kovu- I'm amazed that people say it's bad because it happens in "less than a minute". You're criticising her for being "stupid" but when she does something that is smart, its [itoo][/i] smart. Simba needed much more persuasing to go back, so you could say that Kiara is smarter. I DONT understand why people manage to pick so many holes in Kiara.

Suddenly she becomes all wise and rational and wants to return to the pride she wanted nothing to do with a few hours ago.

Nothing to do with? That's a very out there assumption. Just because she left to find Kovu doesn't mean she wanted to leave the pride. And, also Simba actually wanted nothing to do with his pride. But ofcourse, Simba's different, isn't he?

[xLilacVixenx]

Did it sound like I was acting severe towards Kiara? Because that's the opposite I'm trying to get at, lol.

[Akril]

Exactly as I said, Simba and Kiara are simillar in ways. And what was just said, about Kiara realising because of Kovu- I'm amazed that people say it's bad because it happens in "less than a minute". You're criticising her for being "stupid" but when she does something that is smart, its [itoo][/i] smart. Simba needed much more persuasing to go back, so you could say that Kiara is smarter.

I'm not sure if that was directed at me, but I figured I might as well answer. Kiara's transition from "not brave, strong or smart" to "very brave and very smart" is especially sudden not only because it happens so quickly, but because up until then, Kiara never seems to act particularly wise (brave, yes; wise, not so much) -- there are times when she seems to have something profound on her mind ("I'm more than just a princess! That's only half of who I am!"), but she never elaborates on it for one reason or another. It's a dramatic, yet conveniently timed character shift that just doesn't work that well for me.

I DONT understand why people manage to pick so many holes in Kiara.

That's a question that a lot of oldbies would be able to answer in a lot more depth than I've tried to. There don't seem to be too many on this board, though.

Nothing to do with? That's a very out there assumption. Just because she left to find Kovu doesn't mean she wanted to leave the pride. And, also Simba actually wanted nothing to do with his pride. But ofcourse, Simba's different, isn't he?

I was making an attempt at hyperbole with the "the pride she wanted nothing to do with" statement. When she leaves Pride Rock, she obviously is angry at Simba, and even as a cub, she's complaining about not wanting to be queen and wanting to be herself instead. I was just expanding on those two parts of her personality and didn't intend for that statement to be taken seriously.

I don't know if that last line was meant to be sarcastic or not, but I guess I'll answer it by means of a comparison: Simba lost his father as a cub, was accused of killing him and told to "run away and never return". He lives a carefree life until Nala shows up, but because he still thinks that he caused his father's death, he is obviously not too keen on returning to his pride. It takes a lot of urging for him to finally confront his tormented past and take his place.

As for Kiara, except for her close encounter with the crocodiles and Zira, she seems to have a happy, uneventful childhood, and though we don't see much of her growing up, I think it's safe to say that she led a pretty quiet, sheltered life, being constantly watched over by Simba, Timon, Pumbaa et al. After a lot of socializing with Kovu as an adult, she runs off after him when he is exiled, finds him, then recalls what Simba told her when she was a cub and decides that they need to stop the war between the two prides.

I'm not saying that the two characters don't have several things in common with one another, but I think saying that the two of them are very similar is still a bit of a stretch.

[dariusgib]

i agree with Akrill because i do believe, dont get me wrong i am a Kiara fan a bit of a disappointement to the orginal fans. She wasnt as gracefull or good back story as Nala had at first glance. She had the worst out of the Love songs that was no were near as good as the original and i do believe perhaps there were some sexiest fans who were expecting a boy after LK and were disappointed with the result
Dont get me wrong though. I like Kiara

[dariusgib]

lastely pixelicious you say Simba and Kiara are the same because they both ran away but please understand Simba saw his farther die!!!!!!!!!!!! and believed it was his fault im not being mean im just fact. All Simba said to Kiara is you cant see your boyfriend any more how is that anyway as bad as beliveiving youve killed you father

[dariusgib]

Also i believe you are showing traits princessKiara that you hate Simba yet again im not rying to be mean but let me qoute you
I feel Simba has none of the authority as a father that Mufasa had, in my eyes he seems so uncertain and fumbling, he doesn`t know how to deal with Kiara, so he keeps repeating the same lessons over and over, making his daughter fed up and disrespectful as she can`t take it anymore..
This give me a kind of idea that you hate Simba but lets look at the facts
1. Simba lived a care free life style in the jungle he had no idea how to raise a kid and also he only knows a few rules mufasa told him
2.If you look in the TLK six adeventures you get Kopa right. Isnt it a huge belief here in the LK fan base that Kopa ran away or was murdered. This could make Simba believe it was his fault Phycholically damaging him not to tell Kiara more lessons in case he kills her or to be protective to make her daughter last. Im just saying