Should Simba be replacing Mufasa?

[Regulus]

I realize I'm going against the general consensus on this one, and that's precisely why I brought it up.

Based on the movie alone, the origin of Scar's hatred of his brother, and the exile of the hyenas are both unknown.

It is implied that the hyenas are slobbering mangy stupid poachers, and that Scar is simply evil. But those are assumptions; we don't really know what happened.

The hyenas weren't evil, they were only following Scar's orders because they were hungry. But, you have to ask yourself, why were they hungry? Why wouldn't Mufasa let them live in the Pridelands, where there was food? Until those questions are answered, we really can't judge Mufasa's actions as king.

As for Scar, it is entirely plausible that he had a reason to be jealous of his brother. Perhaps if Mufasa had given Scar a role in the kingdom, instead of treating him like useless garbage, things might have been different. I, for one, can totally imagine a young Mufasa spitting in his brother's face and saying "Na-na-nah-nah, you're not going to be king!"

Just his name itself carries a heavy emotional weight.

Scar.

Think about that.

Heck, he was basically at the very bottom of the pride's social pyramid. Even a talkative bird had a greater status in the kingdom. The sad thing is, it certainly wasn't because he couldn't have been a helpful asset. We know what Scar is capable of; he was quite brilliant, and very cunning.

I can only help but wonder if Mufasa had even given him a chance, to put his abilities to a use that would have benefited their society. I get it - Scar was narcissistic and wanted power and all; but the truth is, the only people who want power are the ones who don't have it. Scar was nearly powerless, and not necessarily rightfully so.

In the end, Scar's demise was his own fault, and I do believe that his hatred got the best of him. But, at the same time, I really find it difficult to imagine that Mufasa wasn't at fault as well.

His name is Scar. He was obviously mentally scarred. Judging by the way Scar acted when he was king, the catalyst for that scar was Mufasa.

Scar: I'm ten times the king Mufasa was!

Scar: You know the law: never, ever mention that name in my presence. I am the king!

That's the scar, right there. That is where Mufasa failed. I am not going to question that he was a better king than Scar, but Mufasa definitely failed as a brother.

I certainly don't have any sort of vendetta against Mufasa or anything, but if there's anything I know for sure, it's that no one is perfect. I don't even think Mufasa knew what he had done to his brother until it was too late.

Ultimately, I think that is the significance of Simba's Pride. Mufasa was never perfect, like he was portrayed to be in the first movie. As a result of the entire ordeal with Kovu and Kiara and the Outlanders, Simba realized that - and corrected it in the end.

My conclusion: while Simba made plenty of mistakes as well, when he realized his father wasn't perfect, he became the better king, hands down.

Simba: I was seeking counsel from the Great Kings.
Nala: Did they help?
Simba: Silent as stars. My father would never-
Nala: Oh, Simba... you want so much to walk the path expected of you. Perhaps Kovu does not.
Simba: What? How do you know what-
Nala: I can see them down there just as easily as you can. Get to know them and see.

My other conclusion: Nala should be replacing Mufasa.

[AdAstrα]

[quote="nalasimba83"] I had a grudge on Simba for most of the time because of
the death of Mufasa.[/quote]

You do realise that Mufasa's death wasn't actually Simba's fault.......right?

[Tora]

Well considering that the Hyenas were allowed to come into the Pride Lands and everything basically died you can see they had no respect for the law or order. Snapping and biting at Sarabi shows they have no respect for the previous queen. They're a disrespectful group and deserve to be banished. The hyena's cared about one thing. Themselves.

Another thing is why would Mufasa give power to a brother that is disrespectful to not only his brother but his own king. Honestly yea I could see Mufasa doing that to his brother as a child, but keep in mind people grow up, and I don't see him doing such things as the King of the pride.

Scar was named Scar, because he was in no doubt a whiny, bratty, and power hungry lion who took pleasure in doing what ever it is he wanted. I think mainly his name Scar was heavily used as a nickname since he had a large scar on his eye. Also being the nasty Scar of the Kingdom that everyone wanted to cover up.

Scar simply was just a big baby that wanted things his way.

[Regulus]

[quote="Tora"]Another thing is why would Mufasa give power to a brother that is disrespectful to not only his brother but his own king. Honestly yea I could see Mufasa doing that to his brother as a child, but keep in mind people grow up, and I don't see him doing such things as the King of the pride.

Scar was named Scar, because he was in no doubt a whiny, bratty, and power hungry lion who took pleasure in doing what ever it is he wanted. I think mainly his name Scar was heavily used as a nickname since he had a large scar on his eye. Also being the nasty Scar of the Kingdom that everyone wanted to cover up.

Scar simply was just a big baby that wanted things his way.[/quote]

When it comes right down to it, that's something a lamb would say, not a lion.

Replace Scar with your name and read that again. I'm pretty sure if you were told that your whole life, you'd be pretty misanthropic too.

Now, to actually respond to this.

[quote]Another thing is why would Mufasa give power to a brother that is disrespectful to not only his brother but his own king.[/quote]

A few things here:

Everyone has their place in the circle of life. No matter what your talents are, there's something you can do to put them to use. In the real world, we have artists, scientists, designers, economists, project managers, doctors, lawyers, etc. The list goes on. But in the realm of the lion king universe, what is Scar? He is nothing. He has nothing to do, because nobody believes he is capable of doing anything.

Now, you claim that Scar is "disrespectful." Some people are just like that. Perhaps Scar doesn't see the need for such formalities when addressing his brother.

The only time Scar and Mufasa are actually seen interacting on screen is just after the presentation of Simba. That's probably what you were referring to. In that case, you know, if my status in the pride was just demoted even farther by the birth of a cub, I'd be pretty crabby too.

That is especially true, considering that someone would try to convince me otherwise. Nothing is more infuriating than being told that I have no right to be angry, when, damn straight, I am angry.

Does Mufasa really not have the common sense to realize that his brother is hurt by the fact that his cub is replacing his position as second in line?

Mufasa doesn't see Scar at the presentation, so what does he do? He goes over to Scar's cave to straighten him up. Instead of: "I didn't see you there today, what happened?" he's like "my son is your future king, and you better not turn your back on me!"

If you had a younger brother, would you talk to him like that? Would you really act all high and mighty in front of him, just because you have some fancy job title?

[quote]Honestly yea I could see Mufasa doing that to his brother as a child, but keep in mind people grow up, and I don't see him doing such things as the King of the pride.[/quote]

That doesn't mean the scar isn't still there. I still remember something a family member told me when I was 12 years old. It was just a joke, I guess, but you know what? It still hurts a little, whenever I think about it.

Things like that, you don't just 'forget' about.

[quote]Scar was named Scar, because he was in no doubt a whiny, bratty, and power hungry lion who took pleasure in doing what ever it is he wanted.[/quote]

But don't you think there's a reason for such behavior? If you're really going to go down that route, and claim that he isn't disciplined, blame his parents for that.

[quote]I think mainly his name Scar was heavily used as a nickname since he had a large scar on his eye. [/quote]

Well, duh. But, speaking as a writer, it is quite fun to use puns to convey ideas.

[quote]Also being the nasty Scar of the Kingdom that everyone wanted to cover up.[/quote]

That's just sad, honestly.

[quote="Tora's Profile Biography"]I'll help anyone that needs help; wither your confused about something to being in emotional pain and need someone to talk to. I'm an philanthropist, and I care for all people even the worst of us. I may not like what they do, but I don't hate the person.[/quote]

And very hypocritical.

[quote]Well considering that the Hyenas were allowed to come into the Pride Lands and everything basically died you can see they had no respect for the law or order.[/quote]

This is a logical fallacy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc

[quote]Snapping and biting at Sarabi shows they have no respect for the previous queen.[/quote]

The hyenas were hungry, and the lionesses wouldn't hunt. Scar told the hyenas to blame the lionesses, so that's what they did.

[quote]They're a disrespectful group and deserve to be banished. The hyena's cared about one thing. Themselves.[/quote]

I see the hyenas as being stupid comic relief, not as being evil.

[Carl]

[quote="Tora"]Well considering that the Hyenas were allowed to come into the Pride Lands and everything basically died you can see they had no respect for the law or order. Snapping and biting at Sarabi shows they have no respect for the previous queen. They're a disrespectful group and deserve to be banished. The hyena's cared about one thing. Themselves.[/quote]

They did those things after they had been starving for the whole movie, at the very beginning they had already been banished, and we simply don't know why. For the entire film, the lions aside from Scar treated them like crap. He was the one who didn't, and they called him friend because of that, so clearly they didn't care only for themselves. It is because of how they were treated that they acted that way during Scar's reign. Maybe they deserved it, but we simply don't know that.

Anyway, I agree with Regulus. I don't think Mufasa was a perfect king, Scar definitely wasn't, and neither was Simba. But I think Simba was the best of the three because based on what we saw, he actually solved the problems he faced.

[DGFone]

[quote="Julie Skywalker"] I don't think Mufasa was a perfect king, Scar definitely wasn't, and neither was Simba. But I thin Simba was the best of the three because based on what we saw, he actually solved the problems he faced.[/quote]

Which is exactly what I said until Regulus moved my post into another topic without bothering to actually only move the part that was relevant to the new topic. So here is what I said in my original post:

[quote="DGFone"]
So was Mufasa bad in banishing all hyenas? Perhaps. But Scar was much worse in letting them in without any checks in place to control their population, not to mention his severe favoritism towards said hyenas, only making the problem worse.

Now as for is Simba better than Mufasa? I will say that while Simba made plenty of mistakes, he had to learn from the very rock bottom how to be a king without an actual king to help him. Combined with the obstacles he had to overcome - returning the Pride Lands to their pre-drought state, for example - I will give him my vote. He at least demonstrated that he can learn from his mistakes, a trait that we didn't see Mufasa do.[/quote]

Nor Scar for that matter. His insanity lead him to regard himself more and more perfect, betrayed by the world around him and not his own actions.

[Ninaroja]

Sometimes I think Simba may have been the better king than Mufasa.

Think about it, when Mufasa was king (from what we see at the start of the film) there are relatively few major problems. The worst thing that seems to happen during Mufasa's reign was hyenas sneaking into the pride lands and Simba getting into trouble. And obviously Scar's treachery but after that Mufasa wasn't King anymore because he was dead.

When Simba takes over from Scar, the whole Pride Lands are in a shambles. Half the pride supposedly still supports the former tyrannical leader over Simba, the rightful king, the pride lands have been pretty much completely destroyed and everyone is starving to death. Moreover, Simba is probably grappling with the fact that most of his life was a lie because he lived so long believing he killed his own father when really he did nothing. Yet, during the reprise of Circle of Life and from the beginning of TLK2 the kingdom seems to be relatively thriving.

So Simba pretty much leads the pride out of adversity while Mufasa only really had to maintain the state of well being in the Pridelands. Therefore, I think Simba overall had the most testing reign out of any of the canon rulers, and therefore showed the most skill as a king.

[nalasimba83]

Darn I wish I did a poll instead

[Ananda]

Muafa did seem like a better king but Simba would eventually become a king after his dad.

[Tora]

Time to open the scap in hopes that it may Scar.

[quote="Regulus"]

When it comes right down to it, that's something a lamb would say, not a lion.

Replace Scar with your name and read that again. I'm pretty sure if you were told that your whole life, you'd be pretty misanthropic too.[/quote]
Actually I would be honored and grateful to at least be a prince in the kingdom. I would be asking Mufasa what I could do to help the Kingdom not sulking around in jealousy plotting the death of the king. It's only speculation with all that you say and imply. You could see Mufasa doing that, but evidence in the movie shows him as a kind loving King. He could have been cold to his brother, but it legitly looks like he cares when the "bird" suggests turning him into a rug.

[quote="Regulus"]A few things here:

Everyone has their place in the circle of life. No matter what your talents are, there's something you can do to put them to use. In the real world, we have artists, scientists, designers, economists, project managers, doctors, lawyers, etc. The list goes on. But in the realm of the lion king universe, what is Scar? He is nothing. He has nothing to do, because nobody believes he is capable of doing anything.

Now, you claim that Scar is "disrespectful." Some people are just like that. Perhaps Scar doesn't see the need for such formalities when addressing his brother.

The only time Scar and Mufasa are actually seen interacting on screen is just after the presentation of Simba. That's probably what you were referring to. In that case, you know, if my status in the pride was just demoted even farther by the birth of a cub, I'd be pretty crabby too.

That is especially true, considering that someone would try to convince me otherwise. Nothing is more infuriating than being told that I have no right to be angry, when, damn straight, I am angry.

Does Mufasa really not have the common sense to realize that his brother is hurt by the fact that his cub is replacing his position as second in line?

Mufasa doesn't see Scar at the presentation, so what does he do? He goes over to Scar's cave to straighten him up. Instead of: "I didn't see you there today, what happened?" he's like "my son is your future king, and you better not turn your back on me!"

If you had a younger brother, would you talk to him like that? Would you really act all high and mighty in front of him, just because you have some fancy job title?[/quote]

A couple things:

Scar wasn't exactly deserving of "compassionate behavior" in the beginning trying to eat Mufasas's Majordomo. Not to mention his response to Mufasa when Mufasa mentioned that Sarabi and him didn't see Scar there. He fakes astonishment, and quite frankly says, "Oh that was today? I feel simply awful." Clearly he was saying "I don't give a crap about you or your son. I care about me, me, me, me."

I think you have an obsession with putting "me" into the story. Not the greatest way of putting it really. Honestly Scar could have done so much more had he not been a whiny baby starving for power. He would have simply refused to do anything but be "king." What would I do in Scar's shoes? Well first I would be looking at Mufasa and asking him what I could be doing to help the Kingdom, as it is my responsibility as a prince. I would not be having sulking time laying in a cave whining about how I'll never be king.

[quote="Regulus"]That doesn't mean the scar isn't still there. I still remember something a family member told me when I was 12 years old. It was just a joke, I guess, but you know what? It still hurts a little, whenever I think about it.

Things like that, you don't just 'forget' about.[/quote]
So you're now trying to relate something which we don't know what is to the situation at hand. While granted that may be true for you how can you use that as evidence when we don't even know what it is that is bothering you? Perhaps it's rubbish that would mean nothing to most people. Perhaps its something terribly wrong, and should never have been said. We don't know which makes that argument invalid.

[quote="Regulus"]But don't you think there's a reason for such behavior? If you're really going to go down that route, and claim that he isn't disciplined, blame his parents for that. [/quote] Quick to blame the parents are you? No evidence at all supports that. I don't understand why you seem to really think of Scar as being molded that way. Scar was disciplined enough to do what he wanted. Clearly he was disciplined enough to do what was right. He chose to do wrong out of his own free will. He only cared about power, and no matter what Mufasa or his parents would have done he only cared about power in the end.

[quote="Regulus"]Well, duh. But, speaking as a writer, it is quite fun to use puns to convey ideas.[/quote]
For this refer to this. [quote="Tora"]Also being the nasty Scar of the Kingdom that everyone wanted to cover up.[/quote]

[quote="Regulus"]That's just sad, honestly. [/quote] May be sad, but that is exactly the way Scar wanted it. Every action he did only made it more abundantly clear. There has to be a reason for why the pride disliked him. A whole pride just doesn't hate someone for no reason at all. There is always a reason even if its a terrible reason.

[quote="Regulus"] Tora's Profile Biography wrote:I'll help anyone that needs help; wither your confused about something to being in emotional pain and need someone to talk to. I'm an philanthropist, and I care for all people even the worst of us. I may not like what they do, but I don't hate the person.



And very hypocritical.[/quote]You can't help someone who doesn't want help Regulus. You can't make someone listen to you. Did Scar go to Mufasa for help? Heck no he didn't. He cared about himself and himself alone. If it didn't get what he wanted he didn't want anyone's help. What I have said isn't hypocritical at all. Scar was a lion, and he deserved to live happy as possible, but that doesn't mean that he had the right to be an ass to everyone and everything. If he wants to be angry go be angry somewhere. Don't sit and take it out on everyone else. If you're mad at Mufasa take it out on Mufasa not anyone else. Going to make an excuse to why Scar would be so angry with Simba? Is it Simba's fault that Scar didn't get what he wanted. Should Scar be justified in tempting Simba in going to the "elephant graveyard" only knowing his henchmen were waiting for him? Was Scar justified in trying to kill Simba?

[quote="Regulus"]This is a logical fallacy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc[/quote]Implying I am only thinking of it's the hyena's fault. They are only the largest factor. Lets look in an economics perspective. What happens when demand for an object increases? Price increases. Why? It's simple; there is not enough food to feed both the Lions and the hyenas. What animals are stupid enough to stay in a death trap? The drought didn't push away the animals. The fact they weren't even allowed to grow pushed them away. Too many predators, and not enough animals. No herbivores = no plants. They may flourish for a while, but the plants will eventually die as the soil runs out of nutrients.

[quote="Regulus"]The hyenas were hungry, and the lionesses wouldn't hunt. Scar told the hyenas to blame the lionesses, so that's what they did.[/quote]
Actually Scar didn't tell them to blame the lionesses. He said, "It's the lionesses' job to do the hunting..." More-less saying he didn't care about their problem. Go bug the lionesses.

[quote="Regulus"]I see the hyenas as being stupid comic relief, not as being evil.[/quote]I don't recall saying they were "evil" I said they were "They're a disrespectful group and deserve to be banished. The hyena's cared about one thing. Themselves." Not sure how you picked "evil" out of that. They don't deserve to disrespect every living creature in the Pride Lands. They take pride in scaring the crap out of every living animal. For example in the third Lion King movie 1 1/2 we can see they didn't have a care at all in eating the Meerkats. They only wanted to scare the living daylights out of them. Laughing, and joking the entire time. Just wanted to see them all run in fear.