Hints about Kopa?

[SummerSnowLeopard]

Good point. I still think that, even if the hints were just shoutouts to the authors of TLK6NA, its still a Kopa hint. Right?

[SuperBabySimba]

Bloody hell. That mud moment interpretated as a Kopa evidence was just too much.

Kiara is evidenrly their first child:

Simba and Nala would both be over-protective of Kiara if they had lost another child earlier, in any way, not to mention in some dramatic way like a murder or disappearence would be. But Nala had absolutely no problem with Kiara running around and being all childlikely wild. She was calm as if nothing was wrong. She even said the "Listen to your father, Kiara" in a very much NOT distressed or serious tone.

And professional film makers do not hide crucial plot points of a background story, such as a loss of another child would be. Especially not, if that loss has not happened in any media form, (hence, nothing bad happens to Kopa in the books.) Thus, everything we see and hear in SP, springs from something or some things we can literally see and hear or analyze with some intelligence, in the first film alone.

[SummerSnowLeopard]

Well then explain the fact that the cub at the end of TLK was a male that was in TLK6NA and that in TLK2, the cub "mysteriously" turns into a female

Care to explain that for me?..

[SuperBabySimba]

[quote="QueenVitani"]Well then explain the fact that the cub at the end of TLK was a male that was in TLK6NA and that in TLK2, the cub "mysteriously" turns into a female

Care to explain that for me?.. [/quote]

Yes, I care to:

1.) The cub at the end of TLK wasn't a male that was in TLK6NA. Because the cub at the end of the film came before a male in TLK6NA. The cub in the end of the film can't be someone that didn't even exist at the moment of its creation.

2.) The cub at the end was never a male in the movie universe, which is evident from the commentary track of the film, wherein its creators did not refer to it as a 'he' or even give it a male name. Instead they just gave it a UNISEX nickname: Fluffy. This IN FACT left the cub in the end of TLK without a gender and real name, until TLK2 made it a girl named Kiara. So, the reason why it turnng into a female isn't mysterious is because it didn't have a gender in the movie universe prior to that moment.

"Kopa books" were published in 1994. The commentary track was published in 1995. Do the math.

[SummerSnowLeopard]

MALE CUBS: Male cubs are brownish gold and have ear rings.

FEMALE CUBS: Female cubs are tan and DON'T have ear rings.

PRESENTATION DIFFERENCES

MALE CUBS: Male cubs lay in the cave until Rafiki comes and puts paint on his forehead. Than Rafiki carries the cub to the edge of Pride Rock and holds him up.

FEMALE CUBS: Female cubs are carried to the edge of Pride Rock by their mother. Rafiki than holds the cub up. Rafiki takes the cub down and THEN puts paint on her forehead.

[SuperBabySimba]

[quote="QueenVitani"]MALE CUBS: Male cubs are brownish gold and have ear rings.

FEMALE CUBS: Female cubs are tan and DON'T have ear rings.[/quote]

FUR COLOUR: Scar is a male and I doubt he had a goldish brown fur as a cub because Simba and Nala's colours didn't change that drastically as they grew up. And Scar even shared the same father with Mufasa, (regarding that he was the next in line to become king.) So, males are not only brownish gold, and thus there's a likeliness females are not only sandy brown. Also, Kiara's ceremony was a remake of Fluffy's ceremony - obviously set to a different time of the day, so the lighting for one had to be different, which would've effected the cub's colour appearence.

Results in: the fur colour is not a 100% proof of the gender.

EAR RINGS: Simba didn't have ear rings as a baby even though he's a male. He didn't have them as an adult either. Sarabi is a female and she DOES have the ear rings.

Results in: the ear rings are irrelevant to the gender - both genders may have them.

[quote="QueenVitani"]PRESENTATION DIFFERENCES[/quote]

Do you know what the concept of a REMAKE is? And how common its use is? Look it up.

[quote="QueenVitani"]MALE CUBS: Male cubs lay in the cave until Rafiki comes and puts paint on his forehead. Than Rafiki carries the cub to the edge of Pride Rock and holds him up.

FEMALE CUBS: Female cubs are carried to the edge of Pride Rock by their mother. Rafiki than holds the cub up. Rafiki takes the cub down and THEN puts paint on her forehead.[/quote]

The cave & carrying bit is only your assumption. We have only one example of each gender's ceremony so it might as well be random. As for the paint detail: if that's so, then the cub at the end of TLK indeed is a girl. You do notice that the cub at the end of TLK does NOT have paint on its forehead when Rafiki holds it up. If you don't believe that tiny picture, check this. No paint whatsoever on Fluffy.

[SummerSnowLeopard]

Whatever. I STILL beleive all MY theories and THATS what matters to me. Your theories aren't convincing me.

But still, the cub at the end of TLK HAD to be Kopa because why in the world would Disney create a totaly different cub for TLK6NA? That would leave Simba with 3 children and 2 that disappeared...

I don't think Disney would see reason in that. And, not that I don't like Kiara, but I have to question why Disney didn't use Kopa in TLK2 instead of Kiara. Of course they probably wanted a girl but why not add Kopa too?

As for Scar, I'm pretty sure that we would all know that it was Scar. A dark furred lion is something that I'll have to go with you on. I'm pretty sure that we wouldn't see a brownish gold female cub anytime soon.

[SuperBabySimba]

So, your theory is that males always get the paint before being held up and females always get the paint after taken down, and that the cub at the end is male even though it apparently didn't have paint on it when it was held up, and thus really would be a girl according to your theory. Contradicting yourself much?

My theories don't have to convince you. The fact that in the movies the cub never was male nor Kopa, remains.

[quote="QueenVitani"]But still, the cub at the end of TLK HAD to be Kopa because why in the world would Disney create a totaly different cub for TLK6NA? That would leave Simba with 3 children and 2 that disappeared... [/quote]

Who said Disney was planning to make a movie sequel at the time when TLK6NA was offered for release? And Disney didn't create Kopa. Kopa and everything else new in those books were created, written and developed by Alex Simmons as "his original story based on the hit film", while he wasn't and isn't part of The Walt Disney Company. That is all stated on Alex Simmons' personal web site.

Thus, Disney didn't create anyone but Fluffy and Kiara.
- Fluffy came before Kopa, and Kopa wasn't created by Disney and then Fluffy's creators didn't refer to the cub as Kopa - which results in that Kopa wasn't accepted into the movie universe by Fluffy's makers but he was left into the book universe only.
- And when Simba and Nala's behaviour and choices in SP are analysed with common sense, logic and realistic look into life, there is no way in hell they had a cub who got lost or died. If they had a son who died or disappeared, Nala would've been a freaked out mother instead of telling Simba the child will be fine, and they would not have left Kiara's safety in the hands of a meerkat and a warthog. HELLO!!!! And as Fluffy without a gender isn't an identity, it didn't get lost but blended into the girl Kiara.

Results in: there was never any other cub in the movie universe but Kiara.

[quote="QueenVitani"]but I have to question why Disney didn't use Kopa in TLK2 instead of Kiara. Of course they probably wanted a girl but why not add Kopa too?[/quote]

I don't know but I can throw a pretty valid point judging by the history of Disney Classic cartoons: Because Kopa wasn't their own creation or even a character in any epic, old fairytale. As for why not use both Kopa and Kiara, perhaps for that same reason plus also because Simba's Pride bases on Romeo & Juliet, and Juliet didn't have siblings, as in a brother wouldn't have served any significant putpose in the story they wanted to tell.

[SummerSnowLeopard]

Okay...how did this turn into a Kopa debat...lol

[Panda-chan]

For once, I actually agree with SBS on this one.