Simba: Not much to be proud of?

[thanigraphics]

I totally agree with the beginning post. Simba doesn't give Kiara a chance, even when she's an adult he acts overprotective. He's also beeing narrow-minded towards Kovu indeed. I even started to dislike Simba during this movie, he's like the father-in-law you really wouldn't like to have

[Pixie]

I also didn't like Simba in SP. For one thing, the colouring was wrong. Seriously, he looked like he was wearing eye shadow. His nose was kinda purple and his fur was too orange. I mean, look at that face!
Also, he became the biggest worry-wart. I personally think that it's because of Kopa, but that's just because I believe the story. It's the only theory that makes sense to me. Even when I was young, when it came out, I always thought there was something else that wasn't mentioned.
If you think about it, it makes sense; he lost one child, so now he's super-protective of Kiara.
Simba was so much better in TLK.

[AustralianChaos]

I must agree with Pixie here, based on what I know of the story beyond the movies.

Simba's over-protective nature of Kiara is most likely born out of two things:
1 - He remembers his own childhood, and all the stupid, dangerous things he did (such as the Elephant Graveyard), and attempts to reign Kiara in to stop her doing the same thing.
2 - If the theories surrounding Kopa are true, then Simba has already lost his first cub. This would make any parent over-protective of the second child.

His attitude towards Kovu is born out of his attitude towards the Outlanders in general. The Outlanders are loyal towards Scar, which means Simba is suspicious of them, and actually probably has a faint idea of what Zira is planning. If you notice, he does not openly confront the Outlanders himself...he is willing to "live and let live", so to speak. but when Zira forces the issue, he is forced to fight. Even when the prides are gathered for a final fight, he gives Zira one last chance to turn around and go home.

I'll agree that Simba has changed drastically between TLK and SP, but if you look carefully, you can see vague hints of his old self underneath the wary and over-protective surface. It's simple character development.

I admire Disney's attempt to give Simba a new level of depth in SP, but most of the changes just don't make sense without understanding the origins of the Outlanders, and the fate of Kopa. Because neither of those are mentioned in either movie, it gets really confusing, really fast.

As everyone says, SP was let down by Disney's laziness.

[Pixie]

Thanks for agreeing with me, australianchaos! it makes me feel special.
I think a key scene for Kopa's existance-theory is when Kiara first goes exploring. Simba and Zazu are very hesitant to tell her why the outsiders are so evil; "Backstabbing, murderous outsiders" as Zazu put it. Simba doesn't explain it too well either, and says that "she'll understand someday", and that "you can't turn your back on them" (even if this leads to Kiara taking it literally )
I'v always wondered why he was so secretive about it, and when I found the Kopa theory, it all made sense.

[LionKing4EVR96]

I've never liked him in the second. A pretty pathetic king indeed!

[Reika]

I think parts of his TLK1 self are still there, but are overshadowed by a bunch of new (and some totally random) traits.
It makes sense to me why he'd hate the Outsiders so much; they seemed to be loyal followers of Scar - and were exiled for that reason - and due to Simba's justified hatred towards Scar, he'd also hate any of Scar's followers. Though the ending makes it clear that they were actually more of Zira's followers rather than Scar's, and merely hated Simba and the Pridelanders for exiling them.

Simba being protective of Kiara kind of makes sense; he doesn't want her to be a repeat of his own crappy childhood, and he's become obsessive in doing this. Add that to the fact that he now has the responsibility of being king AND a father not long after returning to the Pridelands - that's a lot to handle for someone's who been relaxing in a lap of luxury for half of his life. So he's new to it, and doesn't handle the pressures of being a parent well.
That being said, looking at Simba from the first movie, this doesn't seem like the kind of reaction his character would have. He seems more the type to allow his kids to have fun as a cub before growing up and being given responsibilities; I think he'd want his cub the chance to enjoy their cubhood, a chance he wasn't really given. You know, the Simba we saw in the books with his no-longer-canon son Kopa.

[atouchofgrace]

But in SP... UGH. I really, really dislike what they did to Simba (and Nalas) characters in this movie. Nala still offered advice to Simba, but she lost her edge. She was way too gentle and soft with him when she should have grabbed him and shaken him to make him see sense. Nala is very underplayed in SP, she still fulfills her role given to her in TLK, but in a more subtle and less direct way. And when it comes to Simba.. he acts like dung in SP. I hate what he`s doing to Kiara: Denying her freedom and having no trust in her. He seems to think that she can`t move three steps without seriously injuring herself.

Me too! I would try to like this film if Simba and Nala acted like they were supposed to. I just can't. I can get past the awful Timon and Pumbaa jokes, but Simba and Nala just bug me to no end. The only scene where I can really see them is this one:

Simba: Do you realize the dangers we put ourselves in?
{She tackles Simba and puts him on his back.}
Nala: You mean the dangers YOU put us in.

I LOVE this scene! I only tolerate SP while Kiara is little, to be honest. And this^^ is the only scene I really like, if I close my eyes and ignore the poor animation, that is.

[Golionking]

Simba is so different!

[SummerSnowLeopard]

I completly agree with everything you said. Simba was this big hero in TLK, who overcame his fears, faced his past and won in the end..

But in SP... UGH. I really, really dislike what they did to Simba (and Nalas) characters in this movie. Nala still offered advice to Simba, but she lost her edge. She was way too gentle and soft with him when she should have grabbed him and shaken him to make him see sense. Nala is very underplayed in SP, she still fulfills her role given to her in TLK, but in a more subtle and less direct way.

And when it comes to Simba.. he acts like dung in SP. I hate what he’s doing to Kiara: Denying her freedom and having no trust in her. He seems to think that she can’t move three steps without seriously injuring herself.

I kind of agree with this. Simba just cares about Kiara and is a little shaken after what happened to Mufasa. He does have faith in her. He'd be way different if Mufasa never died. And Kovu is (sort of) decended from Scar who murdered his beloved father. Of course he wouldn't trust Kovu. Simba and Zira are enemies so of course Simba wouldn't want to give up a battle like that. And I'm pretty sure Simba's apolagy is shown in his words when they all return home.

And wouldn't you distrust people if the same thing happened to you that happened to Simba?

I think Simba was just so shaken by what happened all those years ago. I know I'd do what he did if I was in his "shoes".