The Kopa Debates

[FlipMode]

I disagree I do not think that the rules need to be changed, what does need to change is people's lame attitudes in said discussions. I mean it's fine to have an opinion on something and to express it, but arguing over an animation is quite another. And also some here can discuss things properly and it is not really fair. The main problem I see in the Kopa discussions is this: person posts opinion, it is different to the next persons opinion and thus they shoot it down, as if the person before them is wrong. That is not how sensible discussions work, you post your opinion on a subject and you leave it as that, if it is different to someone elses thoughts then how does that instigate an opening for you to force your opinion on to them? You know it is different to what you are thinking, but due to lack of evidence no one can be right or wrong in this subject.

In this subject, as I have posted in various other Kopa related thread: "I do not think he is cannon based purely off the fact I did not see him in the films.", now if someone think he IS cannon because he was in 6NA, then they do not need to quote my post and try to prove me wrong, as neither side of the party can do so due to lack of any clarification. Just say "I think he is cannon cause he was in 6NA."

So no the discussions are fine, but just think about what you are posting before you do so. Also one more thing: For the LOVE of all that is GOOD in this world, would people PLEASE stop quoting a post (namely mine) just to say "^THIS", honestly that annoys me so freaking much! I mean once in a while sure but if you agree, explain why because just saying "^THIS" it is kind of spam :/

[SuperBabySimba]

i disgree with that rules should limit Kopa discussions in some way. I personally think it might even be impossible or at least much worse to this forum than the discussions now.

I mean, there will always be people coming around, bringing Kopa into the discussions. If they were always called out on it, "OMG you are not supposed to! You're breaking a rule!" - they probably get a negative feeling about this forum? Not to mention if it was literally there in the Universal Rules or even in a board's rules. I think it is us discussers who need to give a real effort to discuss better.

Though, I can't help but disagree in something else too, even now. Isn't a canon what is literally there in the source that is supposed to be the canon and when possible, combined to its creators visions? Because isn't whatever we are not told/shown in any way by the creators but insted decide ourselves, automatically fanon because it came completely from our fans' head and not from the creators'? That is what my logic tells me. And as the official canon's creators didn't call the cub Kopa or even male and the film itself doesn't say it's Kopa or even male, makes it a fact that Kopa is not movie canon. My point is, and what I disagree in, is: I dont' see how we lack better knowledge in if Kopa is canon or not - as we have both, the film and its creators not calling it Kopa?

As for the TLK2 film - with that I guess we do lack better, solidly factual knowledge, apart from that Kopa isn't even mentioned in the film and anything that could refer to Kopa could also refer to the first film which would naturally be the film maker's main source.

That's why I'm sticking to my siggy pic banner as it is, and because it remains a joke-type of things as long as anyone is keeping the canon supportive banners up. Without them, the banner wouldn't really be fun at all (to me anyway). (:

But as for the discussions I personally promise I will try harder. Perhaps I should avoud using the word 'fact' even when I'm stating things as they are found in a literal film content and the creators' mouths? I can't promise I'll always succeed to not use the word, but I'll try my best.

I will also make efforts not to get too frustrated with the endless "I'm confused" topics related to Fluffy/Simba's cub. Even though I wish people would do their research for themselves from official sources, I shall just try my best to politely direct people to the official sources / clarify what they say and don't say. (:

As for other people in the discussions... This is what I ask of you: If you choose to argue my points, in some way challenge me into debate about Kopa, then please don't have me go through the trouble and then after a while just say "You're theories don't convince me." without reasoning why, as in what about them is unconvincing. As in, if you're not even going to consider my arguments open-mindedly and seriously, then please don't ask for them, please don't argue them as if you really cared that much. Just leave it, and our statements can go on their happy existence by themselves.

[SnowyCheetah]

I am not necessarily suggesting that we make it an official rule not to speak of whether or not Kopa is canon, but I think it's about time we all just shut up about it for awhile until conditions have changed to such a way that we can discuss it civilly.

SBS, I stopped reading that post at the beginning of the third paragraph, where you further proved my point that this needs to stop, by going off-topic simply to bring up the issue again! Your smiley faces don't make it any better, it's still off-topic and it still shows that not only can you not deal with not spewing your opinion about Kopa, but (no offense) it seems like you can't stand to agree with me, as you have literally (I mean that word in its real meaning) disagreed with me every time you've expressed any opinion about my posts. I suggest you leave this thread, or I smell reports in the very near future.

[FlipMode]

[quote="SnowyCheetah"]I am not necessarily suggesting that we make it an official rule not to speak of whether or not Kopa is canon, but I think it's about time we all just shut up about it for awhile until conditions have changed to such a way that we can discuss it civilly.
[/quote]

Ohhh fair enough in that case I agree, although I rarely discuss it anyway :D I do not even get why it has only recently become such an argued / debated topic :s

Edit: [quote="SuperBabySimba"] As in, if you're not even going to consider my arguments open-mindedly and seriously, then please don't ask for them, [/quote]

You should not be making arguments anyway, that is the problem. Also half the time, people don't ask for them.

[Jiirani]

Yeah, I think that basically we should be able to state our opinions, without people trying to prove to use whether Kopa is or is not Canon, as people seem to do. If a person states they think Kopa is canon, people should not spit out ways that he isn't canon, because it's just trying to force what in truth we really don't know onto people who believe he is canon. The same goes for people who don't believe Kopa is canon. People who do believe that Kopa is canon should not try at convince the non believers otherwise, because it just becomes one big pointless argument...

[SuperBabySimba]

SnowyCheetah, I am sorry, really - I honestly considered it only semi-off-topic as it was regarding and analyzing a point brought up in this topic, and realted to this topic of Kopa debates and why they are a problem. As in I was questioning what bit sof the problem actually are a problem. But very well, I shall not address it again.

[quote="FlipMode"][quote="SuperBabySimba"]As in, if you're not even going to consider my arguments open-mindedly and seriously, then please don't ask for them, [/quote]

You should not be making arguments anyway, that is the problem.[/quote]

I can see how constant arguing might get annoying to those who don't find arguments fun. But I don't see how the discussion would be getting anywhere if opinions and thoughts weren't ever argued as in, in another word; challenged. In my eyes, the arguments people make aren't getting us anywhere but annoyed atmosphere because people aren't interested in seriously considering them, asin the problem in my eyes is that people dearly hold on to their own opinions as if nothing else mattered in the concept of discussion.

Not to mention that Kopa fans tend to post always the same opinions and theories, over and over again, many times in new topics, even starting them. After a while it gets impossible to just state a disagreeing opinion instead of arguing in hopes to get something new out of it if people began to see that their theories might not make as much sense as they thought and come to think of something new and refreshing. Can anyone see my point here?

[quote="FlipMode"]Also half the time, people don't ask for them.[/quote]

Hence, my above paragraphs. But yes, I guess I could tone it down, and I will try.

[SnowyCheetah]

[quote="SuperBabySimba"][quote="FlipMode"][quote="SuperBabySimba"]As in, if you're not even going to consider my arguments open-mindedly and seriously, then please don't ask for them, [/quote]

You should not be making arguments anyway, that is the problem.[/quote]

I can see how constant arguing might get annoying to those who don't find arguments fun. But I don't see how the discussion would be getting anywhere if opinions and thoughts weren't ever argued as in, in another word; challenged. In my eyes, the arguments people make aren't getting us anywhere but annoyed atmosphere because people aren't interested in seriously considering them, asin the problem in my eyes is that people dearly hold on to their own opinions as if nothing else mattered in the concept of discussion.[/quote]

Obviously, people don't enjoy arguing, and you are only trying to promote it, and that is one reason the Kopa debates have gotten so out-of-hand. You really need to learn to let people have their opinions. Expressing yours via a signature graphic is fine, but your excruciatingly-long posts about how everyone else is wrong are disruptive to the forum.

[quote="Moka"]Any member who causes disharmony or disruption to the forums may have their account deactivated without warning.[/quote]

[SuperBabySimba]

^
Oh, so now this is all my fault and I've done horrible wrong with my posts? o.O

Then I wonder why Moka has never ever called me out on the posts or deactivated my account after all these weeks of me posting them? Or any mod at all. o.O

[FlipMode]

So your saying that you enjoy a good argument? There are much better forums for arguing with people on.

[quote]After a while it gets impossible to just state a disagreeing opinion instead of arguing[/quote]

No it does not. <---See I disagreed with what you said there without arguing it, as in you are welcome to think that and I am not trying to change your mind but I do disagree.

[quote]Can anyone see my point here?[/quote]

Nope. Well at least, I can not.

What I am trying to say is that sometimes you could just post without forcing what you are saying onto other people. "Sometimes it is better to say nothing and be thought of an idiot, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

[KingKivuli]

ok this topic is getting a bit out of hand

ill end it by saying this

everyone has an opinion of Kopa so let them have their opinion and respect it

topic locked