Oh herro

[TheLionPrince]

[quote="Woeler1"]Fact is you don't have any numbers, you are just wildly guessing because you think you already pay too much taxes. The fact that people are not willing to get such taxes is sad, just plain sad.

Also I don't know where you get your predictions from because all of western Europe and Japan have been functioning extremely well with such laws and taxes. You will always get less money if you do it through charity.

We are one society, we should help each other. Not letting each other die because we are too selfish to miss maybe 30 dollars a month or less. Yes you need taxes to fund school. What you also need taxes for is keeping people healthy, giving people a home and be sure that your population doesn't starve.

A concept called money has overruled our morals as human beings and that is a sad and pathetic thing. It is sad that we no longer give a crap about anyone else... well we do, unless we have to pay.

And for serious, space BS is the first thing that should be cut off by taxes. These things are by far not as important as the own population of a country. The moonlanding is nothing more than a prestige object. I wonder how many people could have gotten an decent home and food to eat for that money.

Taxes for NASA and space travel pfff, we may as well throw the money in a giant bottomless pit. Oh wait, that's whats happening...

Something went horrible wrong in our moral development. Because we now much rather fund space travel than care for actual humans who need it.

it is a very, very sad thing indeed[/quote]

Oh, please! At least $10 trillion has been since the War on Poverty to help those impoverished according to this source. I'm sure the Apollo 11 programs wouldn't nearly cost that much if it were to be performed again today.

Face it! The government has done more than enough to help fight the war on poverty! It's not obviously working when the poverty rate is higher than it's been in recent years, and the President still wants to press on by giving more "government assistance" to them by taxing the rich.

Not don't you get me wrong, I'm all for the government to help those in poverty, but the poor need to learn to help themselves.

[Woeler]

[quote="TheLionPrince"]
Oh, please! At least $10 trillion has been since the War on Poverty to help those impoverished according to this source. I'm sure the Apollo 11 programs wouldn't nearly cost that much if it were to be performed again today.

Face it! The government has done more than enough to help fight the war on poverty! It's not obviously working when the poverty rate is higher than it's been in recent years, and the President still wants to press on by giving more "government assistance" to them by taxing the rich.

Not that you get me wrong, I'm all for the government to help those in poverty, but the poor need to learn to help themselves.[/quote]

You are talking in general over the years. We are in an economical recession. You can't just dismiss the current situation. People don't have jobs, people become poor and homeless. Don't you think if a poor person who wanted to work had the opportunity to do so, he would take that? Simple fact is that there are no opportunities when you have no money. The government without this tax is falling apart, the poverty, homeless and jobless people are at ridiculous amounts.

10 trillion you say? There isn't even an official number to be found on what amount has been spent on nasa alone... The apollo 11 projects cost 25 Billion and the Space shuttle 200 billion. I dont even dare to calculate the total number since it started.

You people are such easy talkers. ''poor need to stand up themselves'' The can't stand up themselves, that is the whole concept of poor people...

Like I said, the only thing that is happening in this ridiculous political game is that the rich are telling the middleclass to blame the poor people for the problems the rich create.

And of course you tax the rich more, seriously in what kind of ''f*** the world'' state are we?

These are the yearly spendings of the US
Defense - $851 billion.
Education - $69.8 billion.
Health and Human Services - $71.7 billion.
Housing and Urban Development - $35.3 billion.
Agriculture - $21.4 billion.

Defense is more than 10 times bigger than health care. That is and will always be ridiculous!

If you'd much rather have a man set foot on a useless piece of space rock rather than helping thousands of people, you might want to question your own morals.

The Iraq war cost more than 3 trillion dollars since 2001, a waste of money and lives. Relative to the amount spent on poverty, this is ridiculously high and not to mention unnecessary.

At last, you might want to actually find some evidence and look at the bad shape your country is in before you posted that last argument, which is not only not true but also ridiculously contradictory to reality

[Azdgari]

While I agree with some of what you're saying Woeler, I'm compelled to say that Health Care spending is 23% of our budget (~850 billion) where defense is 19% (~700 billion) as of 2010.


Lionking, would you change your argument at all in response to several studies which indicate that social mobility in the US is actually lower than in other parts of the world? It's actually very difficult for those born into disadvantaged situations to climb out them. I also disagree with free handouts--how about programs that create opportunities for the impoverished? That's what the war on poverty is actually about, creation of programs to give opportunities to underprivelidged Americans. Welfare gets bastardized very often as "just giving free handouts and not solving the problem" while in fact (other than unemployment benefits which I think are quite important in a time like this when, it's been said, there aren't enough jobs to go around) most of the money goes to just that, trying to create opportunities.


[quote]...the poor need to learn to help themselves.[/quote]
Yikes.

[Woeler]

[quote="Azdgari"]
[quote]...the poor need to learn to help themselves.[/quote]
Yikes.[/quote]

If only the poor could help themselves... the world would be perfect... and they wouldn't be poor
aaaand it doesn't make sense

[FlipMode]

[quote="TheLionPrince"]

Not that you get me wrong, I'm all for the government to help those in poverty, but the poor need to learn to help themselves.[/quote]

Forgive me, but is that not a little contradictory? And how are people with no homes, no water etc supposed to help themselves exactly anyway?
Wait, by "poor" do we mean like, Third World or just generally people less wealthy than us and can barely afford to pay gas bills etc?

[Regulus]

[quote="Woeler1"]If you'd much rather have a man set foot on a useless piece of space rock rather than helping thousands of people, you might want to question your own morals.[/quote]

Someone has to build those rockets, you know. And guess what happens then? People get jobs. Problem solved.

No matter where money is spent it circles around through the economy anyway.

[Woeler]

[quote="Regulus"][quote="Woeler1"]If you'd much rather have a man set foot on a useless piece of space rock rather than helping thousands of people, you might want to question your own morals.[/quote]

Someone has to build those rockets, you know. And guess what happens then? People get jobs. Problem solved.

No matter where money is spent it circles around through the economy anyway.[/quote]

Building a rocket -> decent education -> costs money

Poor people -> No money

I see what you mean, but certainly NOT in space travel and exploration...

[Regulus]

It doesn't take much education to know how to screw one panel of metal to another. The thing is, robots are far more efficient nowadays. Without an education, you're screwed.

This is kinda what I meant earlier. Give a man a fish, and he'll be fed for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll be fed for a lifetime.

[Woeler]

[quote="Regulus"]It doesn't take much education to know how to screw one panel of metal to another. The thing is, robots are far more efficient nowadays. Without an education, you're screwed.

This is kinda what I meant earlier. Give a man a fish, and he'll be fed for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll be fed for a lifetime.[/quote]
Exactly and with the money they have to spend, they give a man a fish. They don't teach.

[Regulus]

If half our defense budget went directly to public schools, we'd be a totally different country, that's for sure.