Israel Under Attack?

[Shadowfax]

I love how this has turned into a religion debate

[Woeler]

So perhaps the best metaphor is that religion is like a tool. A hammer can kill a man, or built him a shelter. Religion can drive one to war, or drive one to embark on an aid-giving mission.

So the question is, do you condemn the hammer? Or do you condemn the person who misuses it?

Is a hammer an essential tool for certain actions? Yes, you can build a house with a hammer, actually you NEED a hammer to build a house.

Do we need religion to do good? No. Name me one good act that could be committed by a normal person of faith, but not by an atheist... There are none

Now tell me an act that only a strongly religious person would commit. That's right, there are a lot of them.

Religion is not essential to life or survival. A hammer is useful in a good sense, religion is not.

But if I were to take your metaphor as true, I'd condemn the person using the hammer and the other person praising the hammer shortly after an atrocity.

More houses were built with hammer than people killed with hammers. More people were murdered by religion than saved by it or its acts. Weigh the good actions agains the bad. I think the scale would nearly explode on one side...

Just because it is useful doesn't mean it is necessary

Circumcision is not religion as a tool, it IS religion.
The murder of unbelievers is not religion as a tool, it IS religion.
Anti gay campaings is not religion as a tool, it IS religion.

On a side note: I'm not sure whether to take it as an insult that you reply with 3 sentences to my huge argument...

[Azdgari]

Now tell me an act that only a strongly religious person would commit. That's right, there are a lot of them.

Hmmm, let's try cutting and pasting...

Do we need religion to do do evil? No. Name me one evil act that could be committed by a normal person of faith, but not by an atheist... There are none.

Religions like Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc, when interpreted correctly, are inspiring of great love in the world. Unfortunately, in the hands of evil or misguided people, they become an excuse to commit atrocity.

Like a hammer, religion is not inherently good or evil. It's what you do with it that determines its nature.

[Woeler]

Now tell me an act that only a strongly religious person would commit. That's right, there are a lot of them.

Hmmm, let's try cutting and pasting...

Do we need religion to do do evil? No. Name me one evil act that could be committed by a normal person of faith, but not by an atheist... There are none.

Religions like Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc, when interpreted correctly, are inspiring of great love in the world. Unfortunately, in the hands of evil or misguided people, they become an excuse to commit atrocity.

Like a hammer, religion is not inherently good or evil. It's what you do with it that determines its nature.

Oh, oh. oh, I know that one! The oppression, discrimination and general hate against homosexuals... yay 10 points

And please, read the old testament and the quran, then report back to me. Peace, love? Gotta be kidding me. I have read Mein Kampf too, that book is less genocidal than the old testament.

[Dark Huntress]

OMG! I JUST ASKED A QUESTION! How did we get here O.o

[Tora]

I'll make a nice reply to Woeler when I get home. Since he wrote a book I'll write one too.

[Azdgari]

Until you understand that religion depends upon individual interpretation, you will not be able to argue intelligently about religion. Hear that loud and clear, my friend.

If you close your ears and say "I have read the Bible and Qu'ran and Torah word for word and therefor I understand this religion as it applies to everyone and because it says X and X and X it is evil", you're making yourself seem willfully ignorant.

[Woeler]

I'll make a nice reply to Woeler when I get home. Since he wrote a book I'll write one too.

If you do reply please don't bother in explaining verses. That's not gonna make a point because it is not the universal interpretation. Just sparing you some work.

Until you understand that religion depends upon individual interpretation, you will not be able to argue intelligently about religion. Hear that loud and clear, my friend.

If you close your ears and say "I have read the Bible and Qu'ran and Torah word for word and therefor I understand this religion as it applies to everyone and because it says X and X and X it is evil", I feel like you're being willfully ignorant.

*awkward, you replied before I even finished the post*
X, X and X are evil, and preached by religion so I don't see why we can not judge religion by the evil it contains (why don't we judge hitler by his great invention of highways?). Somehow criticizing religion is taboo. It should not be. You are defending it on the basis that '''religion does good things too''. Yeah, great, good for religion. Still doesn't justify the 809.000.000 registred deaths and those to come. You on the other hand reject the bad things it does and act as if it is a good thing. You can not have religion without the evils. But if you want to live in a world where criticizing religion is taboo just because it ''does some good things too'', go right ahead, but don't try to make it look innocent. If you were to rewrite history and take out all religion we would be living in quite a different world. Maybe those few good acts would not have been committed, but we would still have those 809.000.000 other souls, minds and hearts.
Call me whatever you want, I'm not concerned with anyone's opinion on me. I'm concerned with their opinion on my views.

[Dark Huntress]

*bounces heel of hand off of forehead and mutters "what have I done now"*

[Azdgari]

This certainly did get away from Israel, didn't it? xP