Legal Voting Age

[Woeler]

[quote="Si Targaryen"][quote="Woeler"]
Today, in democracies leaders are chosen with an election in which everyone older than 18 can vote. Since the jobs in politics are extremely important this is a weird system. No other 'social group' in human society organizes this way. Would you hire an electrician to do you plumbing? No. But why should we 'hire' the uneducated to do our politics?
[/quote]

In that case, shouldn't only people with a degree in Politics get to vote? After all, why is someone with a degree in Arts. Literature or even Medicine going to have knowledge about politics?

I'd probably be classed as "uneducated", yet I own a book on UK Politics, which I've read. That's more than most of my "educated" friends have. Not all learning is done in the classroom.[/quote]
I get the feeling you're taking this too personal. Let me quote myself once again
[quote="Woeler"]I think I'm even going one step further. Voting age up to 21 and one can only vote if one has a college degree (or higher).(of course that only goes for societies in which the government actually pays for education, otherwise this idea would be completely ridiculous)[/quote]

You can read all the books you want. That is no proof of knowledge, to nobody. I want people who can vote on worldchanging decision to have a piece of paper that says ''Yes, I have proven myself to posses both the capacity and the mentality to make intelligent and educated decisions''. If you can do that, but didn't take the education (in the educationproviding state!), then well... you should have taken it.

We don't need politicians. Today's politicians are only there because most of the uneducated lot votes for them. We need biologists and ecologists on environment, we need economists on financial matters, we need criminologists on security, we need tacticians with a military education on defense and we need politicologists keep them all in place.

A good state is not a fair state. Electoral democracy is not efficient at all.

[Si-Amber]

[quote="Woeler"]
You can read all the books you want. That is no proof of knowledge, to nobody. I want people who can vote on worldchanging decision to have a piece of paper that says ''Yes, I have proven myself to posses both the capacity and the mentality to make intelligent and educated decisions''. If you can do that, but didn't take the education (in the educationproviding state!), then well... you should have taken it.
[/quote]

In that case, I'm glad I don't run in a country run by you! A degree (unless it is related to politics) does not mean somebody will be any good at making political choices.

I contribute money to my country and I exercise my right to vote. No vote and I'd give up work and become part of the problem!

[Woeler]

[quote="Si Targaryen"]I contribute money to my country and I exercise my right to vote. No vote and I'd give up work and become part of the problem![/quote]

What problem? I'm pretty sure a technocratic state wouldn't use welfare money on people that stop working because they don't want to. I mean, you can always go to the state and say ''Hey, about that education you offered...''

[quote]A degree (unless it is related to politics) does not mean somebody will be any good at making political choices.[/quote]
It certainly does mean that they are rational.

[Si-Amber]

^ Yes, EVERY person with a degree is a rational person. *rolls eyes*.

Any way, it's fortunately never going to be that way here, not in my lifetime. I have the right to my "uneducated" vote and I'm not likely to lose it.

[Woeler]

[quote="Newsweek"]They’re the sort of scores that drive high-school history teachers to drink. When NEWSWEEK recently asked 1,000 U.S. citizens to take America’s official citizenship test, 29 percent couldn’t name the vice president. Seventy-three percent couldn’t correctly say why we fought the Cold War. Forty-four percent were unable to define the Bill of Rights. And 6 percent couldn’t even circle Independence Day on a calendar.[/quote]

This is the sad truth. You either give people the change to get a decent education, and if they don't bother they don't get a say. And I don't see why anyone would not take a free college or university course besides mentality.

Like I said earlier, the right to vote is not there for fun. One needs to prove one is worthy of a vote. I can't say much more than that it's just my opinion. You probably value equality over quality. I don't. People are not equal.

[spoiler][youtube]d6qIoMjfECo[/youtube][/spoiler]

[Si-Amber]

^ So only academic people are intelligent? OK.

Seems an education is no barrier to ignorance.

[Tsuki]

[quote="Si Targaryen"] Not all learning is done in the classroom.[/quote]

Where's my Clap icon? I totally agree with this. Heck I've done education for 16-17 years and I've never picked up a book on poltics. I have two degrees but in my opinion, that doesn't mean I have more rights to vote than a guy who's worked hard for 10 years, paid taxes and doesn't have a degree. He is earning a living while I'm looking for work despite having a degree. Does that still mean I have a more right to vote than he doesn't?

To be honest, I've found some of the things said here appauling.

[UncoordinatedPisces]

[quote="Si Targaryen"]I didn't do great at school and I dropped out of college. Quite interesting that some people think that even as a taxpayer, I shouldn't have the right to vote, to influence who gets to spend my taxes, because I might be too "ignorant". Just because someone doesn't have a degree, doesn't mean they don't have an understanding of what goes on in their country. You don't have to be academic to be intelligent. I have friends with degrees who don't even watch the news. That's a pretty elitist view you guys have.

As for 16 year olds getting the vote, I say yes. Most teens in this country wouldn't bother to vote anyway, so it would mostly be the few who have an interest in politics / the country. So yeah, let them have their say.[/quote]

I can't say how much I agree with this. As a 15 year old who is interested, I'd love to vote at 16.

[quote="Tsuki"][quote="Si Targaryen"] Not all learning is done in the classroom.[/quote]

Where's my Clap icon? I totally agree with this. Heck I've done education for 16-17 years and I've never picked up a book on poltics. I have two degrees but in my opinion, that doesn't mean I have more rights to vote than a guy who's worked hard for 10 years, paid taxes and doesn't have a degree. He is earning a living while I'm looking for work despite having a degree. Does that still mean I have a more right to vote than he doesn't?

To be honest, I've found some of the things said here appauling.[/quote]

This is so true. Like I said back in my first argument, you learn more about life as you live it.[quote="Woeler"] This is the sad truth. You either give people the change to get a decent education, and if they don't bother they don't get a say. And I don't see why anyone would not take a free college or university course besides mentality.

Like I said earlier, the right to vote is not there for fun. One needs to prove one is worthy of a vote. I can't say much more than that it's just my opinion. You probably value equality over quality. I don't. People are not equal.
[/quote]

...some people want to go into work straight away, even when offered a course. If you have a chance to do an apprenticeship, then why not? When I come out of university (because I'm intending to go) I know I might not have a chance of getting a job. Jobs are hard to come by, and going to University to come out and be jobless is not an option for some.

The right to vote isn't there for fun, and I don't think anybody thinks that here anyway. I don't think you have to 'prove' yourself to vote. That's ridiculous. If you have an opinion on who you want to run our country then you have that opinion.

[Regulus]

It's as simple as this: if you are offered a free education, but you deny it, you must either be lazy, incapable, or happy with your ignorance. Regardless, as such, you have no business running a country.

It's nothing personal. Woeler gets it.

Education won't make someone smarter, but you have to be both moderately intelligent and diligent to obtain an extensive amount of it, if it is provided free of charge.

Some intelligent people don't have an education because they're ahead of the game, but those are rare cases. It's pretty easy to tell who those people are, and they are the exception. They are the people who literally change the world.

But for the 99.9% of us, it's not like that. Generally speaking, the people with degrees are the one who need to be making decisions. They're the ones who have proven themselves able and willing to analyze problems and make rational decisions. Meanwhile, the men who are ignorant enough to think that they don't need an education are the ones who need it most.

It's not discrimination. It's not racism, sexism, or anything like that. This is about giving everyone a chance to better themselves, and filtering out the ones who don't accept it.

Everyone is entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, but not everyone is entitled to meddle around in global, political issues. If you think you have what it takes to run a country, a few years of college isn't too much to ask, especially if it's free.

[UncoordinatedPisces]

[quote="Regulus"]
Everyone is entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, but not everyone is entitled to meddle around in global, political issues. If you think you have what it takes to run a country, a few years of college isn't too much to ask, especially if it's free.[/quote]

Everyone is entitled to those things, and the right to vote.

Also, see bold.

We talking about your own country. We are also talking about voting here, not running a country.

I've added a poll to the first page also.

I'm also feeling ignored on this thread. I have an opinion too you know.