Predator Drones

[Azdgari]

Do you think that we should eradicate Christians and Jews as well?

And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.

[Woeler]

Live and let live.

If only they'd think the same there wouldn't have been a problem at all. I'm not saying I supported the first move (whether it was the US or one of those middle eastern countries), but in this time, at this very moment there is no turning back. We awakened a monster. We're also talking about a culture that beats women, enslaves children, justifies rape and blows up schools.

estimated numbers show that drones kill between 50 and 200 civilians each year. (or 20 civilians per 1500 taliban). The taliban carries out around 700 (known to us) civilian executions annually.

The math is simple.

Do you think that we should eradicate Christians and Jews as well?

And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.

No, they have managed to outgrow the killing. They're still hating, but I haven't seen a gay man being hung in Texas.

It's not as dangerous as taking this seriously

Qur’an 8:12 cp. 8:60 “Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers”; “smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them”

Qur’an 2:191 “...kill the disbelievers wherever we find them”

Qur’an 4.34 Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

[Azdgari]

And since the Taliban consists of extremists (by its very nature) and not the average civilians (obviously, since the article you posted clearly differentiates the two), aren't you defeating your own point? That the average Pakistani/Middle Eastern is not a Taliban extremist?

[Woeler]

And since the Taliban consists of extremists (by its very nature) and not the average civilians (obviously, since the article you posted clearly differentiates the two), aren't you defeating your own point? That the average Pakistani/Middle Eastern is not a Taliban extremist?

Not at all, those people believe the same things and stand for the same ideas. In Egypt, the Muslim brotherhood won with a majority (democratically) The party openly states that women are less than men, gays must be executed and Islam is and shall be viewed as a superior culture. Same goes for Libya and of course the same goes for the Islamic republic of Afghanistan. Even without the taliban. Our Islamic extremism is their Islamic moderation. Even without the taliban, the people still choose for the dehumanizing sharia law, and that has been demonstrated in two countries already. Syria will follow. So lets hope that we can prevent this political disaster in Afghanistan. there is only one way, winning and enforcing moderation, our moderation.

Again, the math is simple.

[Azdgari]

You have some good points and bring up things I'll definitely look into. There is always a point at which preemptive action is more important than talking things out, and perhaps the Middle East is one of those cases. The outlook is indeed grim: however, I will continue to believe that the average Pakistani is more apt to worry about the well being of his/her family than attacking westerners, unless corralled to do so by Taliban agents OR bombed by the US. As I've said before, I think my nation should try to pursue a pathway that A) does not endanger civilians and B) does not perpetuate a cycle of hate. Does that pathway exist yet? I'm not sure. For now, though, I'm not content to say "They're inferior and can't be reasoned with. Kill them all."

If all muslims are as bad as you say, one in four people in the world is evil. Shouldn't we find a way to reconcile them and make peace, rather than exterminate them?

I do agree with you: our western culture is better than extreme Islam. There's no question. A culture that justifies rape and rampant misogyny is barbaric. Is our culture better than somewhere like Turkey? Not particularly, I don't think. They are Islamist in the way America is Christian: moderately, and secularly.

Those two questions I had before I'll ask of you elsewhere: I think they derail things a bit. ;3

[Woeler]

Wow, wow, wow. Inever called for total extermination. I just say that civilian lives is the prize we pay. I have no problem with individual muslims. I have a problem with islam.

There will be peace eventually, global peace. When people finally realize how silly their beliefs are. So silly that a Danish cartoonist can make fun of it all day long. We have a long way to go. This "behead those campaign" isn't mainly in the middle east. This is in Toronto, this is in New York, this is in London.

[Azdgari]

I would have made a large glass dish from that area 50 years ago. Would have saved us a lot of nonsense.

Careful what you say then, friend.

[Woeler]

That was a provocative joke...

[Azdgari]

In the context of calling the area a cancer to the earth? It didn't seem to me like the idea was abhorrent to you. I realize otherwise now. :]

[Baya]

Woeler, I mean no disrespect, but all religions are silly in their nature, not just Islam. Islam is violent, but so is Judaism and Christianity. If you say Santa doesn't exist, but then assert that a Christian, Muslim or Judaic God does, then you are defeating your own reasoning.

Now, as for the use of drones...I'd like to make a correction. Drones are not only used for Arabic Countries, as Afghanistan and select regions around it are not Arabic. I just thought I'd clarify for the sake of eliminating a generalization that America only goes to war with Arabic countries.

Second, the use of drones is definitely unethical and costly. Yes, American Soldier's lives are spared, but one American soldier's life equates to civilian casualties? That doesn't sound at all like a logical rationale for using unmanned and inaccurate drones. Yes, there are extremists hidden in huge villages, but killing ten innocents to capture one criminal does not remotely seem like a democratic principle, now does it?