Israel Under Attack?

[DGFone]

[quote="Woeler1"]
It's so easy to defend your homeland with arrows and axes when the other side has guns and cannons... they were being slaughtered if they didn't obey. They DID bother, they just failed.[/quote]

I am not saying that the natives never bothered to defend their homelands. If you remember the Battle of the Little Bighorn and the Indian wars, they did defend their homes. With guns. Don't pull the "Natives with bows and arrows Avatar-esk romantic stuff. The natives knew they needed guns, and the GOT them.

What I said was that the natives never bothered to claim the land they lived on. Europeans arrived in the Americas and claimed them. By Banana's logic, Europeans own it now (today, its white Americans). The main point is that by not bothering to claim their land, using this logic, the Native Americans have no right to live hear.

And using that same logic, Israel also has all right to remain. Just because they use history to back up their claim to the land, it doesn't neglect the fact that many Israelis DO claim the land as their own.

[Woeler]

In the native civilization claiming wasnt even needed because they didn't even know what that was. They just lived there. Europe invaded them and killed them. The natives are not the bad guys! And even if they did get guns, they didn't have the skill, they had basically nothing. They were being invaded. They were the victim of pure imperialism.

claiming land was a concept invented by the Europeans. The natives didn't even need this concept.

Just to be clear: Israel's land was officially from the palestinians, they HAD claimed it. If I go to the supermarket and claim an apple without paying I'm stealing. If they go to a country and force the original population to leave, start a war and cause a global diplomatic conflict it's perfectly fine...

And all the religious dogma surrounding it causes even more wicked things.

[pitbullangel]

For those who do not believe in God, it is hard to explain why Israel is so attacked, and why the two groups fight so much. It all started with Issac and Ishmael, and Abraham trying help God out instead of trusting Him.. God promised Abraham that both would become great nations (Issac being starting the Israel people and Ishmael fathering the Arab peoples) but would fight until Jesus returns. There will be no peace between them until then. Even if you don't believe in God, history tells the same story, and history also shows that countries that stand against Israel start to fall apart and those that stand with Israel are much blessed. And it has nothing to do with Israel being "good" they were never "good" they doubted, they failed, they ultimately rejected Jesus, they did everything that humans do, however, God chose them, and it had nothing to do with how favorable they were. It had nothing to do with human rules and human thoughts. One day Israel will thrive again and be the people God meant for them to be, it is their land, and it will always be their land no matter who else tries to get it, they fought against God and lost it many times but His promise always remained that they would be brought back and be a nation again.

[Woeler]

[quote="pitbullangel"]It all started with Issac and Ishmael, and Abraham trying help God out instead of trusting Him...[/quote]
Comes from a book that is neither fact nor a source of history by any standards.
[quote="pitbullangel"]God promised Abraham that both would become great nations (Issac being starting the Israel people and Ishmael fathering the Arab peoples) but would fight until Jesus returns.[/quote]
Comes from a book that is neither fact nor a source of history by any standards.
[quote="pitbullangel"]There will be no peace between them until then.[/quote]
There will be peace when they finally realize they are fighting over absurdities.
[quote="pitbullangel"]Even if you don't believe in God, history tells the same story, and history also shows that countries that stand against Israel start to fall apart and those that stand with Israel are much blessed. [/quote]
No it does not. The Greeks found it such a disturbing land they just skipped over it. Palestine was a stable nation for 1300 years. Now the people who own that land are being driven out of it. And it would actually be true if ''blessing'' something did actually contribute to good, but it doesn't. The Pope blessed those who fought the spread of condoms in Africa. How moral of him... [s]Why? because Jesus.[/s]
[quote="pitbullangel"]And it has nothing to do with Israel being "good" they were never "good" they doubted, they failed, they ultimately rejected Jesus, they did everything that humans do, however, God chose them, and it had nothing to do with how favorable they were.[/quote]
It has everyting to do with being good. The cruel actions that take place over there go against ALL moral Teachings of Jesus Christ. He would be disgusted by this whole holy stupidity.
[quote="pitbullangel"]It had nothing to do with human rules and human thoughts.[/quote]
Well honestly...
[quote="pitbullangel"]One day Israel will thrive again and be the people God meant for them to be, it is their land, and it will always be their land no matter who else tries to get it, they fought against God and lost it many times but His promise always remained that they would be brought back and be a nation again.[/quote]
It's not their land, by that view the Natives own all of America. God is not an excuse for the crusades, God is not an excuse for the inquisition and God is and will not be an excuse for this diplomatic disaster and local cruelty. This is no different from any other imperialist-leaning pig-dog war.

Christianity or Judaism are no better than Islam. Not one bit.

One big war of bigotry and nonsense. I would have completely favoured palestine if they weren't fighting in the name of Islam.

[Tora]

I'd just like to point a few things out. To be honest though this fighting hasn't purpose. The people of these lands refuse to listen and so they fight for all the wrong reasons.

[quote="Woeler1"]The Pope blessed those who fought the spread of condoms in Africa.[/quote] It really bugs me that Christianity as a whole gets attack by things that this false figurehead named the Pope does.

[quote="Woeler1"]Christianity or Judaism are no better than Islam. Not one bit.[/quote]
For someone who has read the Qur'an and the Bible that statement is surprising. There is a big difference. You judge Christianity as a whole based upon the Catholic denomination. The Qur'an preaches KILL, KILL, KILL all day long. Show me verse for verse anywhere where Jesus said for Christians to kill.

[Carl]

[quote="Tora"]The Qur'an preaches KILL, KILL, KILL all day long.[/quote]

Actually, it doesn't. The Islamic people were peaceful with pretty much everyone until the British arrived in India and drove a spike between them and the Hindus. Or so I learned in several history classes.

[Tora]

[quote="Juliette"][quote="Tora"]The Qur'an preaches KILL, KILL, KILL all day long.[/quote]

Actually, it doesn't. The Islamic people were peaceful with pretty much everyone until the British arrived in India and drove a spike between them and the Hindus. Or so I learned in several history classes.[/quote]
You should read the Qur'an Muhammad is quite clear.

Sura 8:12 - "Cut off their heads, and cut off the tips of their fingers"
Sura 9:123 - "O you who have believed, fight those adjacent to you of the disbelievers and let them find in you harshness. And know that Allah is with the righteous."
Bukhari 9.84.57 - "Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him."

These are just a small number of verses that most definitely are not peaceful.

[Carl]

[quote="Tora"]
You should read the Qur'an Muhammad is quite clear.

Sura 8:12 - "Cut off their heads, and cut off the tips of their fingers"
Sura 9:123 - "O you who have believed, fight those adjacent to you of the disbelievers and let them find in you harshness. And know that Allah is with the righteous."
Bukhari 9.84.57 - "Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him."

These are just a small number of verses that most definitely are not peaceful.[/quote]

As if the Bible doesn't have violent verses.

Exodus 32:27 "Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.'"

Just because there's violence in the book doesn't mean the people who follow the religion are all violent. I have met several Muslims in my life, all of whom were more peaceful than most Christians I've met.

[Tora]

[quote="Juliette"]
As if the Bible doesn't have violent verses.

Exodus 32:27 "Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.'"

Just because there's violence in the book doesn't mean the people who follow the religion are all violent. I have met several Muslims in my life, all of whom were more peaceful than most Christians I've met.[/quote]

You quote a verse from the time of Moses in which the Levites slaughtered those who would not repent. Those who openly defied God; who would rather worship idols than accept the God which had freed them. God exercised Judgement on them. For they refused not only to repent, but in their hearts they turned from him and were of nothing but evil. That is not to say that the Levites were home free. They became plagued. You know why today Christians don't live the verse today? Simple, Jesus came and taught mercy, forgiveness, and grace to the people. Jesus came and paid the price so we wouldn't have to. He taught us not to condemn people for we are not God, and if we condemn then we ourselves will be condemned.

[Carl]

[quote="Tora"]You quote a verse from the time of Moses in which the Levites slaughtered those who would not repent. Those who openly defied God; who would rather worship idols than accept the God which had freed them. God exercised Judgement on them. For they refused not only to repent, but in their hearts they turned from him and were of nothing but evil. That is not to say that the Levites were home free. They became plagued. You know why today Christians don't live the verse today? Simple, Jesus came and taught mercy, forgiveness, and grace to the people. Jesus came and paid the price so we wouldn't have to. He taught us not to condemn people for we are not God, and if we condemn then we ourselves will be condemned.[/quote]

The circumstances are irrelevant; there's other violent verses in there. Not to mention all the raping that was going on that no one batted an eye at. Just because those things are in the book doesn't mean all of the followers of the faith are violent or will do them, and that is the only point I was trying to make.