Father mistakes son for burglar and kills him with gun

[Regulus]

^ Only one little problem, Woeler:

The US is the third most populated country in the world, aside from China and India.

10,000 out of the 300,000,000 US population is only 0.003%.

However, there's still quite a big difference, if this can be trusted.

Although to be fair, we need to look at the big picture, which includes homicides without the use of guns. The US has an intentional murder rate of 4.2 per 100,000, 3.3 of which of those are from guns, assuming Woeler's average statistic of 10,000 is correct.

Our European brethren are far lower in intentional murder rate, with 1.2 in the UK, 1.1 in the Netherlands and France, and a low of 0.8 murders for every 100,000 people in Germany.

Now, let's take a look at this. The US has 88.8 guns for every 100 residents. Germany has 30.3, France has 31.2, Netherlands has 3.9. It seems like there's some correlation here.

But, let's also consider that Switzerland has 45.7 guns for every 100 people, and a murder rate of 0.7 people for every 100,000.

Yes, I know wikipedia isn't a reputable source. But, very few statistics are actually unbiased, so I'd guess this is as close as I'll ever get to coming to a sound conclusion. So, basically: the only thing statistics can truly prove is that statistics can be manipulated to prove anything you want them to.

Still, I can't disagree with this:

Only in America can gun ownership be a right and healthcare be a privilege... this asocial political system is the thing that forces people into crime anyways.

This ladies and gentlemen, is how the American government solves the problem. Instead of supplying healthcare, jobs and education to the ones that are poor and forced into a criminal society, they just supply the richer, luckier ones with guns to kill them. This is disgraceful, it is inhuman, it is obscene and it comes from a clutch of people who are not willing to grow with modern society, who are not willing to support one another and who are not willing to create a stable, well faring and social society.

Give a man the what he needs and he will not need a gun.

[DGFone]

Guns are killing machines? Not really. For one, there are many people who rely on guns just to live. In the Midwest of the United States, hunting is not a hobby, but a way to get extra meat on the table. Guns are precision instruments - if you want to kill many people, don't use a gun.

A perfect example of this is the vast differences in the number of deaths in WW1 and WW2. The guns used in the wars were largely the same (Germany, Russia, and Britain all used WW1 designs for their rifles). What then made such a big difference?

Aircraft. A technology today that most people will say is a good thing.

[Regulus]

^ This is the 21st century. Nobody needs a gun to live in the lower 48, at least. UPS and FedEx ship to the midwest, you know.

[DGFone]

^ This is the 21st century. Nobody needs a gun to live in the lower 48, at least. UPS and FedEx ship to the midwest, you know.

Unless you are near the border with Mexico...

Or you hunt for food...

Or you don't want Obama to guarantee that you won't have a gun...

[Regulus]

There seems to be almost no correlation whatsoever between gun possession and murder rate. Heck, the only thing I can find is that anarchy leads to murder, more so than anything else.

So, before I joined this discussion, I had no strong opinion either way. I am not a gun owner, nor do I really care about owning guns, nor do I think a lack of guns helps significantly reduce crime rate.

I see no reason to change that apathetic point of view.

If it's really about saving lives, why don't we create more regulations to make our roads and vehicles safer? Every year, about 3x as many people die in automobile accidents, and many more are injured. Every day, we typically spend several minutes at least hurling along at speeds several times faster than evolution could possibly have prepared us to go, and all we have to protect us is a little bubble of metals and glass. Hint: smart cars really aren't all that smart.

[DGFone]

If it's really about saving lives, why don't we create more regulations to make our roads and vehicles safer?

If you want to save lives and think that banning guns is a good idea, then you will also need to ban these:

Cars
Swimming Pools
Common household chemicals (bleach and stuff)
Fireplaces

All of these things kill more children than guns.

[RayCat]

Ahhh well, just thought I'd point out that guns aren't always for killing Woeler pretty sure people here in England would usually use guns to injure somebody if they were robbing somethin' or doing anything they shouldn't be- but not killing them

[RayCat]

Ahhh well, just thought I'd point out that guns aren't always for killing Woeler pretty sure people here in England would usually use guns to injure somebody if they were robbing somethin' or doing anything they shouldn't be- but not killing them

Which is a good thing? And accidents always happen. Trigger pulled, too late.

Indeeed, wouldn't that pretty much conclude this subject though? That accidents happen and there is nothing that can be done? Unless we are still on about whether guns should be allowed or not, cause in that case I believe I gave my views in an earlier post x)

[DGFone]

Guns kill.

Just because you don't know how to use a gun, don't bother to learn about proper gun safety and attitude, doesn't mean that you have to force everyone else not to be allowed to have them. Especially if they are willing to learn how to be responsible with firearms.

Gun-control fanatics love to point out that there is plenty of crime where there are a lot of guns. In reality, it's the other way around - there are many guns where there is already lots of crime, as people get guns to defend themselves. This is also why you can have places like Switzerland, where just about everyone have a gun, but crime is low. Guns don't increase crime or death.

So if someone tries to storm my house, I would like to know that I can use something to give myself an advantage, thank you very much.

[RayCat]

Iiiinteresting... after a little while of thinking too much, I think crimes that aren't gun related (in this case, "burglary") might be the root of the problem. Cause this kinda causes guns to come out, and blah blah if there wasn't any crime we wouldn't really need guns... pardon me for stating the obvious x3 wow, Bryony actually said something that wasn't pointless xD