Legal Voting Age

[KingKivuli]

I honestly do not see an issue with it overall

In the UK, which I am assuming Amy is on about, not the entire world, at 16 you can leave school, start work, get a house, and basically start your adult life. Fair enough maybe younger people don't know a thing about politics, but if that's the case then they wont care either way. For those that are interested though it gives them the option to vote on their life. As I said at 16 you can leave school and start your life, or go to college where you can study politics. Even then between 16-18, the last 2 (optional) school years you can start to look into politics there. I see no reason why those that want to shouldn't be aloud. As I already said if they have an interest they will, if they don't they won't even care, for all we know opening this option will raise interest

[Regulus]

[quote="Woeler"][quote="KingCub"]I think its a good idea! I feel like in this day in age, people are begging to think and stay to live on there own at a younger age then ever before. I mean, I would not mind voting at the age of 17. Im living here, so why should I not get a say it who runs it?[/quote]
Because many young people don't know [censored] about politics. Now as an 18-yearold I might not say that, but I study politics at a university, which I think gives me a free-pas on this one.

Politics is not something everyone should be fiddling around with.

I think I'm even going one step further. Voting age up to 21 and one can only vote if one has a college degree (or higher).(of course that only goes for societies in which the government actually pays for education, otherwise this idea would be completely ridiculous)[/quote]

I totally agree with this, especially the bolded part. So many people, especially the uneducated ones, are way too ignorant to be able to vote.

[Kiburi]

[quote="Regulus"][quote="Woeler"][quote="KingCub"]I think its a good idea! I feel like in this day in age, people are begging to think and stay to live on there own at a younger age then ever before. I mean, I would not mind voting at the age of 17. Im living here, so why should I not get a say it who runs it?[/quote]
Because many young people don't know [censored] about politics. Now as an 18-yearold I might not say that, but I study politics at a university, which I think gives me a free-pas on this one.

Politics is not something everyone should be fiddling around with.

I think I'm even going one step further. Voting age up to 21 and one can only vote if one has a college degree (or higher).(of course that only goes for societies in which the government actually pays for education, otherwise this idea would be completely ridiculous)[/quote]

I totally agree with this, especially the bolded part. So many people, especially the uneducated ones, are way too ignorant to be able to vote.[/quote]
Yeah, but I bet that there are 17 year olds that DO know more about politics than adults. You'd be surprised about how many people make uninformed choices when voting, and don't see the whole picture for what it is. That said, I still think that the voting age should stay at 18. Also, just because you live there doesn't mean that you PAY TAXES to live there, and if you ask me, if you aren't paying taxes, you shouldn't be able to vote.

[Woeler]

[quote="Kiburi"]
Yeah, but I bet that there are 17 year olds that DO know more about politics than adults. You'd be surprised about how many people make uninformed choices when voting, and don't see the whole picture for what it is. That said, I still think that the voting age should stay at 18. Also, just because you live there doesn't mean that you PAY TAXES to live there, and if you ask me, if you aren't paying taxes, you shouldn't be able to vote.[/quote]
Oh, there are. I'd say one in a thousand? I'm not surprised. To be honest most people are political idiots, and politicians like political idiots because they can be used, or actually misused. By adding the 17-yearold group to the votinggroup, you'll add a million idiots and a thousand politically rational people. The only people who profit from this are populists. Their weapon is the ignorance of their voters, and overall, youth is ignorant enough to fall for this.

What does the average 17-yearold know about the VAT?
What does the average 17-yearold know about NAFTA or the EU or ASEAN?
What does the average 17-yearold know about lawmaking?
What does the average 17-yearold know about theorists like Aristotle, Plato and Socrates?
What does the average 17-yearold know about international relationships?
What does the average 17-yearold know about war?
What does the average 17-yearold know about community, taxes, intervention, international law, the economy, the debt?
The answer is 'nothing', because it does not concern most of them.

And as far as I know, as long as one lives in a country one pays taxes. There are no 'none taxpayers' besides illegal people, but illegal people have no right to vote. Actually they have no rights at all.

[quote="Regulus"][quote="Woeler"][quote="KingCub"]I think its a good idea! I feel like in this day in age, people are begging to think and stay to live on there own at a younger age then ever before. I mean, I would not mind voting at the age of 17. Im living here, so why should I not get a say it who runs it?[/quote]
Because many young people don't know [censored] about politics. Now as an 18-yearold I might not say that, but I study politics at a university, which I think gives me a free-pas on this one.

Politics is not something everyone should be fiddling around with.

I think I'm even going one step further. Voting age up to 21 and one can only vote if one has a college degree (or higher).(of course that only goes for societies in which the government actually pays for education, otherwise this idea would be completely ridiculous)[/quote]

I totally agree with this, especially the bolded part. So many people, especially the uneducated ones, are way too ignorant to be able to vote.[/quote]

Welcome to the world of diplomademocracy. It's a bit of a mix between meritocratic democracy and technocratic democracy.

[KentuckyWildcat]

I don't think having a formal education in politics is very relevant to this discussion. Most adults don't even have that, so unless you're advocating for the abolition of representative government altogether, that isn't the real issue with voting age laws.

My problem with lowering the age is that 16 year-olds are still in the process of growing up. They're still in the process of figuring out their own identities and beliefs. They have raging hormones and often ride an emotional roller coaster. No offense intended to anybody reading this who is that age because I was there once too, but I simply don't think that most 16-year olds are mature enough to be given a responsibility like voting. For that matter I could say something similar about a good number of 18-year olds. It's not likely that the 26th Amendment will be repealed, but I actually wouldn't mind reverting back to making 21 the minimum age in America.

[DGFone]

Not an adult? You can't vote.

I'm sorry, but there is no other way to put it: I am not willing to trust even myself to vote on local, let alone national matters before turning legal. You need to give people more time to mature and not be as effected by flowery words and pretty phrases, which admit it, is what most 16 year olds will vote for.

After all, phrase it this way: Will you trust a nation to be run by a bunch of kids?

[UncoordinatedPisces]

I was talking about the UK in particular in my first post but ah well ^^;;

Granted, not a lot of teenagers know how politics work, heck, even I don't know how politics work really. I just know enough to say that I'm relatively interested in it. Perhaps it should just stay at 18. Being raised to 21 is a bit much I think. The whole "higher education" thing I've already expressed my opinion on anyway.

[KingCub]

[quote="DGFone"]
After all, phrase it this way: Will you trust a nation to be run by a bunch of kids?[/quote]
Yes, because kids are the future of this nation, so they should have a say in how its run. The general thought with most people on this topic, is that all 16 year olds are bumbling numptys with raging hormones that that no idea what they are talking about. Im not that some people are not like this, but for the most part, this is not true.

[quote="Woeler"]
Oh, there are. I'd say one in a thousand? I'm not surprised. To be honest most people are political idiots, and politicians like political idiots because they can be used, or actually misused. By adding the 17-yearold group to the votinggroup, you'll add a million idiots and a thousand politically rational people. The only people who profit from this are populists. Their weapon is the ignorance of their voters, and overall, youth is ignorant enough to fall for this.

What does the average 17-yearold know about the VAT?
What does the average 17-yearold know about NAFTA or the EU or ASEAN?
What does the average 17-yearold know about lawmaking?
What does the average 17-yearold know about theorists like Aristotle, Plato and Socrates?
What does the average 17-yearold know about international relationships?
What does the average 17-yearold know about war?
What does the average 17-yearold know about community, taxes, intervention, international law, the economy, the debt?
The answer is 'nothing', because it does not concern most of them.

And as far as I know, as long as one lives in a country one pays taxes. There are no 'none taxpayers' besides illegal people, but illegal people have no right to vote. Actually they have no rights at all.

Because many young people don't know [censored] about politics. Now as an 18-yearold I might not say that, but I study politics at a university, which I think gives me a free-pas on this one.

Politics is not something everyone should be fiddling around with.[/quote]
I don't need to know every bit of a car to know how to drive. Its the same thing here. Most adults don't have the education that you say is needed to vote.

The one thing that you forget to ask yourself is this- If a teenager has absolutely no knowledge about anything political, why would they even take the time to vote in the first place? It already happens with quite a lot of the legal population anyway.

I go back to a debate a long time ago I had with some people similar to this. I honestly think that there should be some-sort of 'test' that needs to be written and passed before you are a legal voter. This can weed out the non-knowing teenagers, whilst giving the people who know about what is going to, be able to vote.

[Woeler]

[quote]I don't need to know every bit of a car to know how to drive. Its the same thing here. Most adults don't have the education that you say is needed to vote. [/quote]
Reading the party bulletpoints and choosing a side is not ''knowing anything sufficient about politics''. That's why I want a diplomademocracy.

[quote]The one thing that you forget to ask yourself is this- If a teenager has absolutely no knowledge about anything political, why would they even take the time to vote in the first place? It already happens with quite a lot of the legal population anyway.[/quote]
Because teenagers are often radical and extreme. Why would people vote if they are apathic? Why do people try alcohol when they are apathic? Because they can.

[quote]I go back to a debate a long time ago I had with some people similar to this. I honestly think that there should be some-sort of 'test' that needs to be written and passed before you are a legal voter. This can weed out the non-knowing teenagers, whilst giving the people who know about what is going to, be able to vote.[/quote]
Or you don't waste money on tests that need to be made every term and you just draw the line somewhere in the educational system.

[quote]Yes, because kids are the future of this nation[/quote]
So are 15,14,13,12 etc. yearolds. Should they be able to vote? Should immigrant workers be able to vote?

If 16-year-olds get the vote, they may feel fleeting excitement — and, because most children know nothing about money, may be more likely to vote Labour — but after a few years, they will get bored and then people will start demanding a human right to vote at 14, or 12, or eight.

Virtually no 16-year-olds pay tax. It is often said that there should be no taxation without representation, but the sentence is also true when reversed. If you are not paying and never have paid tax, I do not really understand why you should have a say in its distribution.
Which is basically what you said:
[quote="KingCub"]if you ask me, if you aren't paying taxes, you shouldn't be able to vote.[/quote]


[quote]The general thought with most people on this topic, is that all 16 year olds are bumbling numptys with raging hormones that that no idea what they are talking about.[/quote]
Which for the most, seems correct.

[DGFone]

[quote="KingCub"][quote="DGFone"]
After all, phrase it this way: Will you trust a nation to be run by a bunch of kids?[/quote]
Yes, because kids are the future of this nation, so they should have a say in how its run. [/quote]

You just said it: they are the future. Let them run the nation...

...When they have grown up, matured, and understood life a lot more. In other words, let them run the nation when it's their turn.

After all, as Woeler took straight out of rebellious American history: "No taxation without representation", and then reverse that.

Most 16 year olds don't know how to manage money well enough to survive on their own. Us their allowance for things life GPUs, yes. But do they pay for food? Housing? Health care (through taxation or directly)? And now you're asking them to dictate how much others are required to pay in taxes?

Communism is great as long as you don't run out of other people's money.

If teens get the right to vote, this is exactly what will happen.

---

On the subject of dumb adults voting for who-knows-what:

My physics teacher (who is almost anti-me in terms of politics, BTW), like to say that there should be this simple requirement: Want to vote? Pass a very simple test that shows that you know even a bit of "common" knowledge about the nation which you are voting in. No fees attached (so no poll tax). Flunk the test? Can't vote. But if you flunk the test, it might be better if you don't vote anyways.