Is there such thing as a truly selfless act?

[Azdgari]

[quote="DGFone"]Yes there is such a thing. Seeing as selfless is when you don't think about yourself and what you can gain from an action influences you a whole 0%, these things do happen.

The problem is what happens when the person survives and then thinks about it. But as for the time during the action itself? Happens all the time. Just because you unintentionally benefited from an action in the future doesn't mean that you were thinking about how it can help you while you were acting.

So yes, you can even earn a billion dollars after a truly selfless act.[/quote]
I mean, if it's in anticipation of reward it's not really selfless is it?

[SlayerOfLight]

A truly ''selfless'' act is something done for someone else out of compassion and empathy, whitout thinking about own concerns and needs.

So, allthough most of the human race forgot the meaning of ''selfless'', I guess that it still excists (for a while).

[axx1000]

I learned about this in microeconomics, it really all comes down to if you believe in self interest which is: that everything you do is in self interest to your self whether its physical or mental. so useing examples shown above: (all assumming that we believe in self interest)

[quote="KingKivuli"]thinking about it nothing is truly selfless. i do things for my friends/family/fiancée all the time without thinking about it, never occurs to that it makes them like me more, it does but.. never enters my head until i think on it. its one of those things where its perspective. that solider with grenade i find 100% selfless, he gave his life to save a friend without even thinking. in moments like that. you dont think 'oh yeah ill do this and be crowned a hero' it just happens[/quote]

Looking at this i would think that you do those things for your family because tecnically by doing those things you gain the love of anothe person which helps you mentaly/emotionally. And the soldier did take the gernade blast willinly to save someone but he knew that the mental gain for both himself (in those last few seconds) and to his buddy that he saved was worth his life.

[quote="Azdgari"]Sure. For example, I love my brother unconditionally. I care more about his happiness than my own, truly. I act selflessly for him because of that.[/quote]

Once again you love because emotionally you feel a bond to your brother and you do things for family and friends to better yourself in their eyes and mentally benifit yourself.

I propose the following idea: what if someone absolutly loves you they gain so much to themself by being around you and fitting in. Now imagin that this person doesnt add anything to you as a person metally or physically. would you care for them?
With self interest ideal you wouldnt; you dont feel different or better by there friendship because it doesnt mentally offer you anything and you dont put up with it because you dont gain anything physical from them being there.

on page 2 Azdgari stated: "can you believe in love if you dont believe in selflessness?"
With self interest you can but if you havnt caught on yet its not because your selfless, its because you both mentally gain from the experience you share together.

Last but not least i want to clear this up before people get depreassed by the possible reality of things

SELF INTEREST DOES NOT MAKE YOU A BAD PERSON; self interest makes you climb to new heights and naturally better yourself. If we didnt have self interest we wouldnt have any great people: no albert einstein or stephen hawking because its self interest that presses us to rise better then what the average is and become the best human we can possible be.


Also before i end this i had alot of metal examples above so i figured id throw in a physical example down here:

Imagine this scenario: there is 2 people tradeing items, person 1's item would greatly improve the life of person 2 (for whatever reason lets just say its a shirt) person 2 would gain warmth, now the item that person 2 has that he is tradeing to person 1 WILL NOT in any way shape or form improve person 1's life. (lets just say a base ball card collection). Person 1 would not make the trade because he does not benifit at all from the transaction that would occure.

Now lets say that person 2 is dirt poor and person 1 feels sorry for him. Now its possible that person 1 would make the trade with person 2 because he is mentally gaining (happy) that because of him person 2 is going to suffer a bit less and he helped that person.

[Azdgari]

No, I would give the person the shirt because he's cold. You argument makes no sense. Love makes the world go around yo. What about a husband who dies for his wife, or for his kids?

[Woeler]

[quote="axx1000"]
Imagine this scenario: there is 2 people tradeing items, person 1's item would greatly improve the life of person 2 (for whatever reason lets just say its a shirt) person 2 would gain warmth, now the item that person 2 has that he is tradeing to person 1 WILL NOT in any way shape or form improve person 1's life. (lets just say a base ball card collection). Person 1 would not make the trade because he does not benifit at all from the transaction that would occure.

Now lets say that person 2 is dirt poor and person 1 feels sorry for him. Now its possible that person 1 would make the trade with person 2 because he is mentally gaining (happy) that because of him person 2 is going to suffer a bit less and he helped that person.[/quote]



Bro, that makes no sense at all...

[Kitva Hyperlink]

[quote="axx1000"]
Imagine this scenario: there is 2 people tradeing items, person 1's item would greatly improve the life of person 2 (for whatever reason lets just say its a shirt) person 2 would gain warmth, now the item that person 2 has that he is tradeing to person 1 WILL NOT in any way shape or form improve person 1's life. (lets just say a base ball card collection). Person 1 would not make the trade because he does not benifit at all from the transaction that would occure.

Now lets say that person 2 is dirt poor and person 1 feels sorry for him. Now its possible that person 1 would make the trade with person 2 because he is mentally gaining (happy) that because of him person 2 is going to suffer a bit less and he helped that person.[/quote]
That would be a selfless act, yes.

[Elebeth]

One will always, maybe not conscious, have a win in helping the other.
with the shirt: the person will feel good about himself for helping the poor.(so it increases his selfesteem, it's not a material thing but it's for oneselve) It's a humans nature to do things that reward him.

The only thing, I think,that is truly selfless is giving your life for another person.
But even then...

It's a hard question

ps: (sorry if someone mensioned this already) In 'friends' there is an episode where Phoebe an Joey are having a discussion about this, and Joey tries to do a selfless act.

[Baya]

There are no selfless acts. Anything we do is either consciously or subconsciously done to favor our needs. Whether it is our reputation, to fortify our connections, to meet some need, or to be consistent with our ill gotten beliefs. If there is a selfless act out there, I bid anyone to provide it. Giving money to a homeless man? You are only trying to earn a reputation and not feel guilty for that moment in time. Let me give an example:

My friend was hosting at a banquet hall for charity donors. The people were rude, uptight and very demanding. What does this mean? They've given to charity and thus feel themselves above others. But charitable people must be selfless right? 100% Wrong. Charitable people think throwing money at things makes them better in one way or another. Bill Gates doesn't donate to charity because it is a good thing to do ,but because he is taxed less on his income. All you have to do is look at the continent of Africa to see evidence of my point. If there are truly selfless acts, then why are people there starving and dying? You might say "Oh, people are helping there!", yeah well either they have nothing for them back at home, or they are trying to be consistent with their ill gotten beliefs. That, or they like to feel better than other people and they get that feeling when they help the less fortunate.