The Meaning of SP: What Did You Take Away from the Film?

[Carl]

OK, so basically we all know a few things about this movie: it was a direct-to-video sequel and many fans (even those who like it) don't think it is up to par with the epicosity of the first film. We know it was based on Shakespeare's play, Romeo and Juliet, and we know that it focuses on the forbidden love aspect and overcoming our differences and yadda yadda.

What I want to know is, what did this film mean to you all?

Not "oh did you like it?" Or "what does it mean in the TLK universe" or something like that, but more, what can it teach about life. And specifically, what lessons you might have learned from it, or lessons you think others could learn from it.

To me, I am one of those people who has always liked the first movie better. However, as some of you may have noticed based on my graphics and writing, I have always had a pull towards SP. Why?

Because it means something to me. Yes the movie could have been made better, yes they could have done things differently, yeah yeah. But that's not what makes it great to me. To me, this movie is about acceptance, not judging, and learning to get along. Yes that is a part of what it is overtly about, but, for me it's deeper than that happy love story "let's all get along for them," kind of thing.

Look at history. Humans always feel the need to judge others and discriminate against them. Why? Because they're different, because people don't understand them? I'm not 100% sure, but it is a human condition. The characters of TLK are humanized. We all know that. Simba has exiled the Outlanders for being supporters of Scar (that's up for debate in fanon, obviously, but is not what I'm getting at here) and in theory, he doesn't like them for their allegiance to him. The only one who seems to have any allegiance to Scar though, is Zira. The others just look like her and follow her; until they are given the choice not to. Clearly they weren't really devoted to Scar at all, or they would hate Simba, right?

So, to me, it seems they were outcast with Zira because they looked like the bad guys. They looked like Scar. They looked like Zira. Simba's experience with Scar, and with Zira, probably suggests to him that lions with "Outlander-style" noses and scruffier, more angular appearances are like them. Is this fact, is this supported by evidence from Disney? No, it's just a theory I've developed.

So, Simba is a bit racist, because he was wronged by those like the Outlanders. So he exiles all of them. And what happens with them? When we are shown the Outlands, the Outlanders besides Zira aren't really shown to be quite like her. They are shown to be starving, poor, and bitter. In my opinion, rightly bitter. They didn't have to hate Simba and love Scar before the exile to be bitter about the situation Simba had put them in. The only one shown to specifically have anything against Simba is Zira herself. She is butthurt that he killed Scar and kicked her out. Of course at this point, whether they liked Scar or Zira or not, the others go along with Zira's plan. Obviously they want their home back, they don't want to be so poor anymore, they're tired of going hungry, being thirsty. They are tired of poverty inflicted by discrimination.

Maybe they think violence is the only way to be treated right, maybe they really are bitter and cruel followers of Scar, I personally, think it is more likely the former, considering the outcome of the movie.

So Kovu goes to the Pridelands and finds acceptance in the form of Kiara, and even Nala, and possibly the other lionesses. Only Simba is outwardly unaccepting of him. He realizes that not all Pridelanders are bad. That there's no need for violence, no need to kill Simba. He realizes he can get what he was raised to get more peacefully, and for love of Kiara, doesn't want to harm Simba, despite Simba's attittude towards him. Kovu is then exiled by Simba for a second time, for something he didn't do.

Now, I know what people are going to say "Simba thought Kovu set the ambush, that's what Zira said, he had a reason." I call BS. Yeah, that's how it's portrayed, but there are flaws in that. First of all, Simba, not Kovu, led their walk. He was the one that took Kovu out to the place where Zira ambushed them. Someone can't ambush you if you took them to the place where you are ambushed. Secondly, when Kovu had the chance to kill him, Simba watched Kovu run away. Rationally, he should know Kovu is not against him. Zira is against him, and her pride are the ones attacking him. But when he gets home, who does Simba punish? Kovu. The one who looks like his attackers.

Finally we get to the final battle, the Outlanders are attacking, Simba is defending, which at this point it is definitely right for him to fight. He was attacked after all. Kiara and Kovu interrupt, refusing to fight. They just stand in the way while Kiara gives her speech, pointing out that "we are one." Her acceptance touches Simba, and Vitani, and Simba realizes there is no reason to discriminate, realizes and admits he was wrong. Now, if all of those Outlanders had been devoted to Scar, had been his followers, Simba would have had no reason to forgive and forget. If they were all "murderous" and "backstabbing" it would have been too dangerous to allow them to stay (yes those were Zazu's words, not his, but the point remains).

Simba realizes he had made a mistake by judging them all, and offers forgiveness. For the sake of ending the fighting, he even goes so far as to offer it to Zira herself. She refuses, but the other Outlanders are done fighting, so obviously they have nothing personal against Simba, not like they would if they were loyal to Scar. Had they been loyal to Scar like Zira was, they would have pressed on until they eliminated Simba, but they didn't. This suggests to me that they were not out for revenge, merely that they wanted out of the horrible situation they had been in. They just wanted to be able to live comfortably like the Pridelanders.

Zira dies, and Simba welcomes the Outlanders to come home with the Pridelanders. The Outlanders look relieved and tired, and happily surprised. Everyone is happy, yay the end.

So, what is my point? To me, this movie is not about some silly love story and a family squabble, it's about overcoming discrimination, and it shows how much more peaceful life can be once that is achieved. It is about not judging, and about learning from your mistakes. And that is a lesson I think much of the world needs to learn. If we could all just accept one another as we are and ignore the differences, we could work together for a better future instead of fighting amongst ourselves and as a community would be more productive and more at peace.

Obviously some of you, maybe all of you, will disagree with me. That's fine. This is just my interpretation of the film. Hopefully it's not too controversial, lol.

Did anyone else get a similar feeling from the movie? Did some people find a different life lesson in it? Do you think there are no life lessons in this movie? What do you think the meaning is? Do you think there's not a meaning?

Discuss. Or eventually go on a tangent and turn it into a debate about something else, cos we all know that's likely to happen anyway.

[InsaneSeagull]

Oh, yeah. We have kind of similar looks to it.

To begin with, I really, really love SP. Not closely as much as I love the first, but I do. I think it's a great movie, and probably the best Disney sequel. At certain points I even liked it more than the first, but no, not anymore. But it still holds great meaning to me, and I enjoy watching it, very much.

But, what and why do I like that much?

Most often Disney has one looking code for goodies and another for baddies and everyone follows it. That was also followed here (Pridelanders and Outlanders looked quite different, no matter what Kiara said in the end =P).

But, even though these Outsiders were following Zira, we never had a real proof they had anything against Simba, or Pridelanders in general. They were loyal soldiers and subjects, and that's it. They were hungry. They were exhausted. They fought, so they can keep living. It was commonly known that Pridelanders were their "enemies", just like real soldiers think about neighboring countries. They were thought to look at 'em that way. But rarely who truly hated them in the classic way.

Same with Pridelanders. Except for Simba, and probably Zazu, none of them showed (openly) anything against Outlanders, even though they kept following Simba's lead. Even Nala, who is the closest to Simba, was on Kovu's side, practically since the beginning, since he saved Kiara. She trusted him, and, therefore, managed to do something Simba couldn't practically 'till the end (do not tell me SP Nala has no great role, everr XDD). She told him not to be prejudiced and to try getting to know Kovu. And that's probably a very important moment in the movie.

[quote]First of all, Simba, not Kovu, led their walk. He was the one that took Kovu out to the place where Zira ambushed them. Someone can't ambush you if you took them to the place where you are ambushed.[/quote]
Interesting observation, I hadn't noticed it. Probably Kovu had ability to predict future? =P Joking, of course.

Now that I think about it, I start to feel that Simba probably noticed it too. Not only that, but Kovu wanted to talk to Kiara in the first place, not him. Simba knew Zira's final target was him, not Kiara or anyone else in the Pride. Sure, Zira hated them all, but Simba was her true grave enemy. If Kovu even set an ambush then, it would have been for Kiara, not Simba, following all this. Does that make any sense? Probably not.

And again, they were exploring Pridelands, with Simba's lead. There might be some ways of the others following them to the certain place, blah, blah, but still such ambush isn't very likely.

So, Simba either misjudged Kovu very stupidly, or wanted it to look that way, so he could prevent Kiara from getting too close to him. It might have been both, but very likely even only second. Again, Nala wasn't supporting him while exiling Kovu.

Blah, blah, blah.

Anyway, all of them making peace in the end (oh, well, except for Zira, but...) makes all the story kind of utopian, but still, that's a movie. If that had not happened, probably everything before would be meaningless. It's great to see them all overcoming their differences finally, and accepting each other. I loved how Vitani understood what Kiara meant first, even though she seemed loyal to her mother all along. Probably they all thought about it on their own but none of them was powerful enough to do something like it. Kiara was still Simba's daughter AND a princess. Her words meant something. And they were quite memorable.

Don't hate each other, people. Or at least, hate, but hate everyone, do not be prejudiced .

OK, I really did write a lot XD .

You made me wish to watch SP againn ^^

[Regulus]

[Arbystrider]

[quote="Julie Skywalker"]So, to me, it seems they were outcast with Zira because they looked like the bad guys. They looked like Scar. They looked like Zira. Simba's experience with Scar, and with Zira, probably suggests to him that lions with "Outlander-style" noses and scruffier, more angular appearances are like them. Is this fact, is this supported by evidence from Disney? No, it's just a theory I've developed.

So, Simba is a bit racist, because he was wronged by those like the Outlanders. So he exiles all of them. [/quote]

I'm not going to go against your theory or anything here, but just saying that I thought that Disney gave them the Outlander look just so the viewers can easily tell between Pridelanders and Outlanders, and nothing more than that - simply for identification purposes.

[quote="Julie Skywalker"]Now, I know what people are going to say "Simba thought Kovu set the ambush, that's what Zira said, he had a reason." I call BS. Yeah, that's how it's portrayed, but there are flaws in that. First of all, Simba, not Kovu, led their walk. He was the one that took Kovu out to the place where Zira ambushed them. Someone can't ambush you if you took them to the place where you are ambushed.[/quote]

People (and/or lions) start thinking strange (sometimes stupid) things when they feel really insecure. More about insecurity later on in this poast.

[quote="Julie Skywalker"]Secondly, when Kovu had the chance to kill him, Simba watched Kovu run away. Rationally, he should know Kovu is not against him. Zira is against him, and her pride are the ones attacking him.[/quote]

If I were being surrounded by 6 hostiles all lunging at clawing at me, I don't think I would have paid attention to the one guy who gets flung at a rock and goes unconscious.

Then when Kovu appears in front of Simba while Simba's climbing the wooden river dam, Zira instructs Kovu to 'get him', then Kovu just runs off into nowhere and that idiot Nuka just randomly comes running at me, chances are I would think that:

1. A certain half-crazy lion named Nuka is rapidly gaining on me
2. I should get away from him
3. Kovu isn't a good guy anymore, and generally, not-good guys are bad guys, especially if they lead you into getting killed
4. Kovu's just running off to flank around me to get a better angle to get me from, because he's a bad guy
5. I would probably only have the mental capacity to think about the first two because Nuka is one scary dude, and he's the bigger problem I have to deal with right now, so Kovu isn't dangerous enough to worry about just yet. Well, not as dangerous as Nuka is at this instant.

[quote="Julie Skywalker"]But when he gets home, who does Simba punish? Kovu. The one who looks like his attackers.[/quote]

I'd always thought Simba punished Kovu because Simba felt really insecure and didn't want to risk his own life (or his daughter's) by having Kovu in their presence, because who knows what else he could pull off? After all, Simba's insecurity is one of the main things Kiara disliked about Simba - Stuff like having to 'stay on the path he's marked for her', having to 'be in sight of Pride Rock at all times', sending Timon and Pumbaa to spy on her for her safety, and right down to exiling Kovu and further removing Kiara's freedom by not letting her 'go on any hunts, ever' were all because of Simba's insecurity.

And then there's that nightmare he had about Muffy falling into the stampede, and then looking up to find Kovu push him to his death as well, which helps explain why Simba was so fearful.

TLDR: Simba expelled Kovu because he didn't feel safe having Kovu around.

[quote="Julie Skywalker"]Did anyone else get a similar feeling from the movie? Did some people find a different life lesson in it? Do you think there are no life lessons in this movie? What do you think the meaning is? Do you think there's not a meaning?[/quote]

No life lessons? No meaning? In a Disney movie? Ahahaha. You make me laugh so bad.

*I fell asleep typing at about here, woke up 4 hours later to finish

I, personally, would like to add to the throw-in bag of life lessons here: Carrying the team.

Whuuut? OK, so Kovu and Kiara were just two lions who managed to re-unite the pride consisting of over two dozen lions. Just because you're a small party doesn't mean your actions can't affect the tide of how things go.

That, and love conquers all, because had it not have been for KovuxKiara, the two prides would still be separate.

/me realises it's 2am and shuts his eyes to sleep.

[Carl]

[quote="Arbystrider"]I'm not going to go against your theory or anything here, but just saying that I thought that Disney gave them the Outlander look just so the viewers can easily tell between Pridelanders and Outlanders, and nothing more than that - simply for identification purposes.[/quote]

Yes, that is why Disney made them look different. We know that. My point isn't why they look that way as far as design goes. I'm just referring to what else it can imply within the movie. As I already pointed out, all of them who are alive but Zira agree with Kiara and join the Pridelanders at the end, and that's not a bad guy thing to do. That and that there is nothing in the film to suggest that Zira's followers are truly evil in the first place.

[quote]
If I were being surrounded by 6 hostiles all lunging at clawing at me, I don't think I would have paid attention to the one guy who gets flung at a rock and goes unconscious.[/quote]

I never said he would have paid attention to that part, specifically because he wouldn't have. He would have been focusing on his attackers.


[quote]3. Kovu isn't a good guy anymore, and generally, not-good guys are bad guys, especially if they lead you into getting killed
4. Kovu's just running off to flank around me to get a better angle to get me from, because he's a bad guy[/quote]

But, as I already pointed out, Simba led the way. Kovu didn't lead him anywhere. And when Kovu turned and ran, he shouted "No." Then Nuka yelled, "I'll do it!" It's made pretty obvious by their reactions that Kovu is bailing on the Outlanders. So even without Simba noticing Kovu wasn't attacking him during the initial assault, he'd have to be stupid to think Kovu wanted to kill him. He'd have to be even stupider to really think Kovu planned the attack when Kovu hadn't even planned on talking to Simba that morning in the first place. Kovu had approached Kiara, but Simba stopped him and led him out there to where the ambush took place. Simba was there. He knows it was his idea for him and Kovu to wander off alone together. He can't logically blame Kovu for the attack.

[quote]TLDR: Simba expelled Kovu because he didn't feel safe having Kovu around.[/quote]

And he had no legitimate reason not to feel safe around Kovu. All he had was his insecurity, which is my point. All there was to it was he didn't like or trust Kovu (because Kovu was Zira's son, might I add) and Kovu's family had attacked him.

The creators may not have intended it to look like racism, but to me, that's exactly what this looks like.

[quote]
No life lessons? No meaning? In a Disney movie? Ahahaha. You make me laugh so bad. [/quote]

That was thrown in because some people don't see any redeeming features of SP and I'm sure there are some people who don't think there was anything to the movie besides "milking the cash cow."

[quote]I, personally, would like to add to the throw-in bag of life lessons here: Carrying the team.

Whuuut? OK, so Kovu and Kiara were just two lions who managed to re-unite the pride consisting of over two dozen lions. Just because you're a small party doesn't mean your actions can't affect the tide of how things go.

That, and love conquers all, because had it not have been for KovuxKiara, the two prides would still be separate.[/quote]

These are interesting points.

[Regulus]

Okay, I wasn't done with that post up there. Now that I've had the time to read through all this, there are still a few more things I wanted to say.

Most importantly, I've always sorta thought that the lesson of SP has nothing to do with love. In a way, I totally agree that the scope is so much broader--it's about overcoming stereotypes and such as a whole.

But, before I go too far into that, I'd like to point out something big here: the movie actually does a horrible job of resembling the way the real world works. I know, that's because it's a 90 minute Disney movie, and some things just have to be the way they are for it to work in the way it was intended to.

But that, precisely, is what the problem is. In the real world, it's not going to work that way. Consider the final battle scene. They were fighting. If you've ever been in a fight before, you'll know that the brain does very weird things during those intense situations. It's all about survival. There's so much adrenaline going through your blood, and you're breathing too hard to think about anything clearly. I can't stress this enough: it's a life or death situation. If you're the guy in the fight, you're not going to stop and think about why you're fighting the other guy. If you stop, you're going to think about nothing other than your own breath, heartbeat, and injuries.

What Kiara said to Simba never should have worked during that final battle scene. In all reality, Kovu and Kiara probably would have gotten themselves killed jumping straight into the fight like that. You can't break up a fight by telling people to stop, you need to intervene with brute force. That's what always happens. Imagine saying "we are one" when two drunk guys are fighting in a bar. You can't tell me that will end favorably for anyone. It's really the same idea.

But that, that right there, is what hasn't been mentioned yet. Simba's Pride isn't as much of a love story because of the meaning of "we are one." There is actually a pretty deep meaning contained within that phrase, and it basically coincides with the idea of the circle of life. That's one of the few ways in which it actually is connected to the source material of the original movie.

The meaning of Simba's Pride essentially comes from the idea that we're all one in the same. It's the notion that we're really all on the same team here, meaning there really isn't much of a reason to fight.

Yeah, it's pretty cheesy. Even with what I already said being set aside, it ultimately downplays the entire plot of the movie itself. Because the movie ends in that way, it completely takes away from Nuka's death, and thus his own life. It takes the entire conflict of the first movie, and basically says that Mufasa and Scar's rivalry doesn't matter.

This is basically why I don't care for SP as much as I should. The writers were trying too hard to make it like Romeo and Juliet, when they could have done something else entirely.

Let's remember that Kovu was originally intended to be Scar's son, and Zira was supposed to be Scar's mate. This was obscured to avoid the incest issue, because it would make Kovu and Kiara related.

But that is the entire point. Kovu and Kiara are related!

The movie would have made so much more sense if Kovu and Kiara weren't lovers, but cousins. Instead of falling in love, they work together discover their own heritage. Wouldn't it have been so much better if Kovu wanted to follow in Scar's pawprints and kill Simba, but then realized that he was actually related to the lion he wanted to kill?

That opens up so much more potential (especially when it comes to the history lessons), and follows much more closely to the "remember who you are" theme of the original movie. Why that had to become an optimistic version of Romeo and Juliet is beyond me, because quite frankly, it makes so much less sense that way.

But, I digress. I rather like the message of TLK2. In fact, I think it's a lot better than the message of 99% of movies. But still, its execution of that message was rather poor. The situation just never would have worked out in the way that it did.

In short, people are bigots. We're not capable of being non-judgmental. We're stubborn. We have our beliefs, we fight to the death for what we believe in, and we're not going to change that. SP completely ignores this at the end, and replaces all such bigotry in the conflicts of every previous scene with the "love conquers all" idea.

Love can conquer all. But that's only for the people in love. That sort of logic only works for Kovu and Kiara. Simba shouldn't have done that!

Yes, I said it. Even though Simba was wrong, it shouldn't have worked that way. Nala couldn't convince him he was being stupid. Rafiki never tried. Mufasa could have, but that scene doesn't exist for reasons I cannot begin to fathom. But... come on, guys. Am I really expected to believe that Kiara was able to convince Simba to change his mind in such a way?

If it was just Simba being stupid here, then why were the lionesses even fighting them? It's just... it doesn't make any sense!

They were all fooled by that lie. Love is great, but it isn't going to solve the world's problems in such a way. That's why we have problems.

Most people fall in love at least once, at some point in their life (or they claim to), and yet we still have racism, stereotypes, wars, and prejudice attitudes on a daily basis in any modern society.

I know, it's cynical. But I guess the main point here is this: you need something greater than love to solve problems on such epic scales. That's where SP falls short. There's an epic problem, and it needs an epic solution like the first movie had.

There needs to be a ghost of Mufasa, or perhaps even a ghost of Scar. It's about the ideology, or the religion of it all, if you will. Because that does work. History tells us that beliefs can make people go to war, and beliefs can make people end a war.

That is all.

[TheLionPrince]

What I take away from Simba's Pride is the message of "we are one" and not to live in the past. As seen in the movie, when Mufasa (using the wind) breaks a "coconut" in two, and shows Rafiki that one half represents Kovu (representing the Outsiders) and the other represents Kiara (representing the Pridelanders). When the two parts connect, the coconut becomes one. Oddly enough, I can see why the writers originally wanted Kovu to be Kiara's cousin. When Kovu's family becomes united with Kiara's family, their heritage is made whole again because Kovu was to be a blood relative of Simba and Kiara. This kind of connects with Kiara's character development and how the concept locks in with her destiny. When Kiara is asked what her other half is besides being a princess, she is confused. When she is looking for Kovu after he is exiled, she sees half of her reflection in the water, and after finding Kovu, she sees half of her reflection connected with Kovu's as one. After Kovu says we are one, she puts two and two together, and realizes that she and Kovu have to go back in order for the theme to reunite her family.

(I'm not sure if this is a good point, but even Kovu looked at his reflection in the water when he's being banished, he sees just Scar. After he reunites with Kiara, his reflection is not only half of his resemblance to Scar, but half of what Kiara is.)

The "we are one" message is basically a term of social unity, which also ties into what the "Circle of Life" message Mufasa said to Simba in the first film when he said, "Everything you see here exists together on a delicate balance, and as a king, you have to understand that balance, and respect all the creatures..." When the Pridelanders and the Outsiders are existing together as one pride during Kiara and Kovu's "wedding", notice what shape the pride are forming: a circle.



Also, before Simba sings the song, he interprets the message to Kiara as being "we are a part of each other". When Mufasa explains the food cycle between the lions and the antelopes in the first film, the "we are one" comes in when the lion becomes a part of the antelope after consuming it, and the antelope does the same when it consumes the dead remains of the lion when it becomes the grass.

On to the next topic, a sum of the characters in Simba's Pride are living in the past. Ironically enough, this is identical with Simba's "hero's journey" in the first film when Simba has to let go of his guilty past, and embrace his new future as the rightful king. Until the very end as noted by Simba, Zira is living in the past trying to recreate Kovu into her version of Scar, and in her mind when Kovu defeats Simba, she can enjoy her reign of power that is implied she once had before Simba came along. Simba himself is living in the past trying to recreate Mufasa in himself. This stems from Simba's lack of confidence in himself knowing he has to follow in the footsteps of his father whom he idolized as the ideal king. Not hearing his father's voice when he was asking for his advice in dealing with Kovu or approve of his reign makes it even worse. Along with this, Simba still carries his hatred of Scar which plays a role in the Outsiders' exile, and after he is reminded of we are one, he releases it even to the point of including Zira though she refuses to. After uniting the prides, Mufasa tells him "Well, my son", Simba can finally overcome his lack of self-confidence, and be his own king.

One overlooked aspect is when Timon tries to recreate the days he and Pumbaa had with Simba on Kiara by enjoying grubs. This is why Timon hoped Kiara would be a boy at the beginning of the film. During the battle sequence, Tmon tells Pumbaa to "stop living the past" when Timon wants to create a new motto. It isn't as deep or meaningful to the storyline, but I think it's a fine point to bring up.

[cleargreenwater]

[quote="Regulus"] Everything etc.[/quote]

I think you just beautifully illustrated why I find SP so ultimately insipid. It isn't that it doesn't have a lesson or a point, it's that its completely trite and lacking all or any nuance.

Because of love, Kiara changes everyone's mind, then everyone lives as one on her advice--which of course means coming over to her side.

It's like people who use "everyone is the same underneath" to completely ignore/gloss over and give zero credence to challenges unique to minority experience while never realizing that "everyone is the same" actually in their own mind translates hazily & vaguely into roughly "everybody is just like me underneath". Which, of course, is belittleing.

Encouraging an understanding of common humanity is one thing, expecting the world to come around to seeing everything your way by a combination of love and naivety and then it magically completely working systemically where everyone joins your life is just....wholy dissatisfying.

I think that's why, as much as SP makes my TLK aesthetic spasm, dystopian fan follow-ups and AUs and interpretations are a big guilty pleasure of mine. Good for Kiara & Kovu and their story, what if the Outlanders like being Outlanders and don't want Kiara's vision of the future for themselves?

SP's lessons aren't without any merit as it relates to an individual personally--by all means, believe the best in people, fall in love, these are positive feeling experiences and within reason can be traits of a buoyant self. I don't dislike Kiara as a character, I actually like her more than any of the other "new" characters introduced in SP because her existence is less wtf. The movie is ludicrous and enough to make my teeth hurt, though.

There's just not much pathos left to the story when you write out Romeo & Juliet dying, and when you try to write in a message of responsibility in its place in its stead, well, the result is pedantic and contrived.

Yes, it's Disney, but King Triton saw his prejudices were making Ariel unhappy and changed them, there was interpersonal conflict resolution and understanding and she jogged off to happily ever after--it wasn't Ariel & Eric publicly proselytizing and everyone suddenly happily uniting in a pool volleyball league

I am sure the moral of SP is "We are one", they are none to light handed beating you with it. I just don't feel SP manages to convey very much actual meaning at all.



(....Also I wrote the bulk of this like 4 or 5 hours ago before getting distracted, I'm not really following the conversation, and truthfully haven't watched SP in about 5 years, I just felt obliged because the haters were called out, lol. :p)

[FlipMode]

What I took away from it is that straight to video sequels don't necessarily have to automatically be branded as terrible movies.

Oh and something about love and being "one", letting the similarities of us all conquer our differences, realizing just how connected life really is from one living thing to another especially to one human to another and with this knowledge in mind there is no reason to want to kill one another other than for our own corrupt personal gain. The concept of "oneness" and maybe even symbiosis is really bought to light in this movie. It taught me that civilization could do more if we all came together properly and really take a stand, using what we have in common to reach one greater goal and achieve a better life for ourselves and those around us. If only we weren't living in such isolation and fear of each other, blinded by hate towards certain people or groups of people. If only we could see just how together we really are, we could make the World a better place and until everyone in the World learns this same message, it will continue to be a place of seclusion.We may all want to achieve our own dreams, but what if we all collectively had the one same dream? think about how many things could be accomplished if we all came together and worked for it.
President Obama and every single other World leader need to watch The Lion King 2 and then keep watching it until they also get this same message, unless it is spread then the World will remain the way it is now, but if we hammer it home to everyone, there just might be hope yet.

Yeah, I got that message from it too, as well as the straight to DVD movies not sucking thing.

[DGFone]

I actually view Simba's Pride not so much with the "We Are One" message nor even the "Romeo and Juliette" love story as much as Simba learning to live up to his expectations of how he thought Mufasa would want him to rule.

After all, whenever Simba would make what would qualify as a bad call in the movie, he always basically uses the same excuse: "This is the law of my father, and I aim to follow this law." The thing is, how much of the law does he actually know? The way he acts in the movie, it's a lot like he read the rules and can repeat them, but he lacks the understanding of why they were created in the first, or even how to properly use them.

One one hand, this kind of does make sense - Simba did not grow up to be a king under Mufasa's guidance, and instead just kind of had to make things up along after he returned. With the other pride members and Zazu to help him, he would be told and would memorize the laws that were set in place, but he won't actually get the knowledge of how the laws were meant to tick, and how to apply them in practical situations.

On the other hand, you have to think: Zazu should know how Mufasa applied the laws, not to mention Sarabi's job often required her to help the king, which will mean that she will also have the knowledge that Simba needed to get from Mufasa. Even if she never actually helped Mufasa, Sarabi would at least gleam that knowledge just from idle chatter with her husband. And there's Rafiki... So you do have to wonder that, with Zazu, Sarabi, and Rafiki around to help Simba become a good king, how come he comes across as quite the amateur in SP? Sure, in the song "We Are One", you can see that Simba at least has some idea of how to really run the Pride Lands, but when it comes down to making actual decisions, Simba fails quite horribly.

And this was the point of SP, in my opinion: Simba becoming the great king that he always envisioned and idolized Mufasa as.

So the real meaning of SP, at least for me, is that if you want to get what you want, you really have to work for it. Life doesn't give out lemons.

Just look at Simba, even just in SP: He nearly lost his daughter several times, had divided his pride, and nearly lead it into a civil war. At the end of the movie, he finally learned what he needed to do, but if events in the movie were even slightly different, he easily could have crossed the point of no return several times and never had the chance to redeem himself and reunite the prides.

Even Kiara had to follow this: she easily could have abandoned both prides and run away with Kovu, but that would have meant a guaranteed civil war among the prides, and for what? She chose to face up to her fears and return with Kovu, in a slight hope of stopping the war before it was too late.

Of course, as Regulus pointed out, in the real world, unless Kiara and Kovu would arrive with some AKs in tow, their plan would have failed miserably.