Feminism

[Squeely]

[quote="Amy"]Do I believe there are areas of society where women have not yet reached that equality? Yes...but, there needs to be more focus from modern feminism on the countries where women really are being systematically oppressed. I do not believe that in Western countries, women are experiencing that same oppression.[/quote]
Not the same level of oppression, no. Women in a lot of Middle Eastern countries, for example, have it far worse, and I agree that things are far more problematic there. That said, I am from a Western country and I do not agree that the problems we face should be ignored. That's kind of like saying you should treat your lung cancer but ignore your broken ankle. One problem is worse than the other, but they are both problems that should be addressed, and just because one problem is worse, it doesn't invalidate the other.

[Nilla]

@Amy, western feminism really should focus on other countries that have it far worse more often than it does. And I 100% understand wanting to distance yourself from the feminist label. Besides, it's definition is so broad noawdays that saying you're one really doesn't tell people anything about you.
I personally don't focus my activism on other countries. The reason is that I've never been to one, I don't know what it's like first hand, and I don't have the ability to make an overseas impact. Just because other places have it worse than I do, doesn't mean that my home country (good ol USA) does't have so many problems that I could dedicate an entire lifetime to them and never be finished.

I'm gonna go. People are barely responding to anything I'm saying unless they're telling me that I've broken a rule or been rude (totally acceptable sorry guys) I don't want to be the annoying person that spurts out paragraphs that people quickly scroll past and roll their eyes while continuing their discussion with others

[UncoordinatedPisces]

[quote="Squeely"][quote="Amy"]Do I believe there are areas of society where women have not yet reached that equality? Yes...but, there needs to be more focus from modern feminism on the countries where women really are being systematically oppressed. I do not believe that in Western countries, women are experiencing that same oppression.[/quote]
Not the same level of oppression, no. Women in a lot of Middle Eastern countries, for example, have it far worse, and I agree that things are far more problematic there. That said, I am from a Western country and I do not agree that the problems we face should be ignored. That's kind of like saying you should treat your lung cancer but ignore your broken ankle. One problem is worse than the other, but they are both problems that should be addressed, and just because one problem is worse, it doesn't invalidate the other.[/quote]
I never invalidated the problems faced by women in Western countries, or saying we should ignore them. I simply want the focus to be shifted.

[Braveheart]

[quote="Amy"]
[quote="Braveheart"]What? Maternity leave 1.5 years? Here is only total 8 weeks. 4 weeks after, 4 weeks before giving birth. Also equal pay act. Ha. Only apply to USA...[/quote]
This implies that things are unfair in Braveheart's country, why is feminism not doing more about that?
[/quote]
Because some things can be swept under the rug. We also have the women charter, but that doesn't extend to pay. Mainly on social/family issues. 54% of women complain about pay compared to their male counterpart. But we tend to pay women more when it comes to the financial sector, plus maternal benefits and training.

In China, women are like 2nd class citizens. You get lesser benefits than men. Period.

In short, it's a cultural thing. Some countries are more accepting, others not.

Oh, and not to mention the glass ceiling thing...

[S1mb4 D4 L10n]

It still seems as if there is a lack of demonstration of Western society having that "broken ankle".

Think about it this way.

Women have every legal right as men do in the Western world.

Rape is not only not encouraged by Western culture, but it is actually considered by most to be one of the most disgusting crimes you can commit.

The gender pay gap is also not due to sexism. I have addressed this in my previous post.

Women now attend universities in the United States more than men at this point, a testament to the success of gender equality.

If we're going to advocate for anything, it should be to advocate for women to pursue careers in STEM and politics so we can combat against the gender pay gap and help better our democracy.

Also. I'm going to bed for now. Peace until tomorrow.

[Squeely]

[quote="Amy"]
I never invalidated the problems faced by women in Western countries, or saying we should ignore them. I simply want the focus to be shifted.[/quote]
Ah, I see what you're saying now, and I agree. Sorry for taking it the wrong way, I've just heard the type of argument that does sweep problems under the rug because "other people have it worse" applied to other things, and those types of arguments always bother me. My apologies for misinterpreting what you said.

[Rollo]

I'm proud to call myself a feminist, and I'm proud to be fighting for equality for both genders, the way a feminist should be. It was the internet, predominantly Tumblr, that introduced me to feminism, as was likely the case for many of you on here. I'm not sure if I was lucky to learn about it during a time where 'feminazi's were not around or if I happen to have a head on my shoulders that allows me to see the difference between logical thinking and sheer hatred but I feel like I have mastered the concept pretty well. I also feel like the latter is something most people on the internet unfortunately lack, and that's what leads us to this ongoing mess of Boys Vs Girls, which is the exact thing we're trying to destroy, ironically. But I don't blame those who are wary of feminism. There are good feminists and bad feminists and I tend to see more of the bad side online.

However, that being said, those who are wary should have the sense to look into it before they make such a drastic decision to fuel such a fire. People will always twist the words of others if it does not suit their own needs. There is no excuse for making up your mind based on a few misled people. If you wish to be heard, and have the means to do so, educate yourself, please.

I think many people fail to understand the different aims of feminism - instead, they see it as women supremacy. Women are suffering more than men in several ways, but that does not make a man's hardship any less important. The reason women are focused on more in feminism is because we have a longer journey to take before we are truly equal to men. Not just white, cis, straight women living in a first world country, but women all over the world, wherever they may be. While you can be a man who is sexually abused and is laughed at by his co-workers for being a 'little girl' and not enjoying it, you are still a man who receives more pay than a woman for no reason other than your gender. Sexual abuse is not a guarantee, as abhorrent as it is, but being paid more is when you're a man. Both things have to change immediately.

In my eyes, feminism is allowing women to become equal to men while allowing men the same 'rights' (take that term very lightly) a woman already has - i.e, the seriousness of a rape, sexual harassment and domestic abuse case, the ability to partake in 'feminine' activities without ridicule or assumption being made and many more. It's also including our transgender community and helping them to blossom with these respective rights. While some of you may have a completely different opinion on that, please understand that a transgender person, by choosing to embrace their true identity, is also accepting the several hindrances that identity comes with. That's no easy task.

And, just to add, it's also including our community who may not conform to what a feminist expects. Think about all the different 'traditional' religions, particularly the clothing they wear. Many women would say it was degrading to hide their face. That it may be, it is not your choice, and by forcing a woman to do something she doesn't want to do, you're just as bad. I think the keyword for feminism is respect. We have to remember that.

Feminism branching into TV and other forms of media is a natural transition and I support it completely. Media is how we educate the masses and spread awareness. It's especially important in kids TV; we're shaping young minds and helping them grow into sensible people in such a influential time of their lives. I'd love to able to see the next generation grow up where a boy can wear a dress if he wants to and a girl could... well, lead a Lion Guard if she wanted to, without any qualms. Equality and feminism is about breaking these gender stereotypes and barriers and allowing people to just be people - humans with rights, and who deserve respect regardless of the gender, race or religion they are.

[juhouh]

[quote="lelizwe"]I'm proud to call myself a feminist, and I'm proud to be fighting for equality for both genders[/quote]
In this case you are human right activist, not a feminist. And we will never achieve total equality between genders. Nature just made us so males are stronger and they are always able to exploit this fact no matter is it legal or not. What can we do?

[quote="Nilla"]
Women currently hold 4.6 percent of Fortune 500 CEO roles. Let's stop saying "women CEO's exist!" And start asking why there are so few.
[/quote]More women are not aiming that high. I have no idea what's the reason behind this (most likely because they think they can't) but both genders have an equal chances to become CEO of any company, at least in Western World

--

To be honest. This whole feminism is just a step towards class-society although they claim otherwise, they aim for special privileges. I wonder what would Marx and Lenin say about feminism...

[Ninaroja]

I'm not going to bother responding to anyone who has already posted in this thread. From what I've read so far, most people in this discussion aren't listening to each other. I'll just throw in my two cents.

Real feminists do not want to oppress men, nor do they hate men. All they want is for the sexes to be held equal. Obviously we are ways ahead of where we have been, but true equality has not yet achieved.

A hatred of men is called Misandry. PLEASE people, stop confusing the two.

Edit: I'll say it again just to remind everyone, just because we are in the World Issues board doesn't mean usual rules about common decency/respect for other users shouldn't be observed!

[Rollo]

^ I completely agree.

@juhouh You seem to have a pessimistic attitude toward this which doesn't add anything toward the movement imo, but hey, each to their own. Your comment sounds as though we're still living on the forest floor fighting over meat. What is your definition of 'stronger'? Physically? If a woman and a man are both putting in the same amount of work, shouldn't they be paid the same? If a man is clearly doing more than a woman, then yes, I can see why you would beg to differ. He is working harder and deserves the financial credit for that. But if one man responds to 50 emails in a day and a woman responds to 50 too, both with the same experience and talent, why does he get paid more?

We aren't animals and we're capable of a better future if we work together. History has showed us that. The definition of 'total equality' is arguable, but I think we could be a lot better than what we are now. I'm just trying to be realistic but in a positive manner. What's the point in living if you aren't hoping for a better future?