The restriction of freedom of speech in colleges

Re: The restriction of freedom of speech in colleges

Postby Gaze » June 6th, 2016, 1:50 am

[quote="Kops"][quote="GeminiGemelo"]Also, to clarify. I don't really have anything against social justice. I do have a problem with the way that some people online tend to bastardize it into a movement to repress opinions and inflict some kind of payback on cis-white-males and etc... but really, I don't see that all too much around here. That's not what social justice is supposed to be about, anyway.[/quote]

This. This this this this this.

Wanting social justice is what has always driven society forward. Claiming you're an oppressed leafkin whose safespace is being invaded by opposing views or encouraging transtrenderism or being triggered from pictures of fire or something is making a sick joke out of legitimate issues faced by PTSD sufferers, rape survivors and dysphoric transgenders and making them sound like a clown circus rather than people suffering. As Regulus said... that's a "regressive left" because all it does is takes us backwards.

Also, personally I agree with 'trigger warnings' but only for REALLY serious issues, such as graphic depictions of violence, rape or suicide that can be legitimately upsetting even for average people (imagine how legitimate trauma sufferers must feel if it's upsetting to the average person).[/quote]
well, speaking as a very dysphoric transgender person, I'd just personally like to say that I don't think transtrenderism is really a thing or that physical dysphoria is a requirement of being trans. I know a number of people IRL who are nonbinary trans people whose dysphoria is quite minimally physical. hell, even my partner is a mostly non-dysphoric trans person. however I can guarantee you they are one of the most intelligent and down-to-earth ppl you will meet and certainly nothing like the images that probably come to mind when most people hear the word "transtrender." they even have childhood experiences with gender that are similar to those expressed by many dysphoric trans ppl - for example, secretly dressing up in feminine clothing and wishing desperately to be a girl. it's just that this manifests in a different way for them. gender is complicated and I think we are increasingly realizing that --- that you can have what is considered a "male" body and not completely feel uncomfortable with that, but entirely dis-identify with being male in every other way. gender is certainly just as much of a social thing as it is a physical thing, and while I don't think we're at a point where we can completely make sense of it and explain why things are the way they are, I think it's worth seeing that completely reasonable people are having these experiences and they shouldn't be classified as illegitimate.
there's no pros to pretending to be trans, especially if you are public about it IRL. even here, where I am lucky to be around a pretty decently sized trans community, there are still enough problems you will encounter by coming out as trans that I can't see any reason why someone would fake it. even if someone felt that it would be beneficial to them to fake being trans - perhaps to give themselves a louder voice in the community? - that wouldn't mean every other nonbinary or non-dysphoric person is a fraud.

does being dysphoric make me suffer? oh yeah, a ton!! but that doesn't mean non-dysphoric people aren't suffering too. moreover, I hate the thought that the extent of my suffering makes me a more legitimate trans person. the trans experience shouldn't be defined by suffering. it is perfectly possible to be quite proud and happy to be trans even when it causes you a ton of heartache. I don't think the narrative of trans people being sad and miserable in their bodies and constantly suffering helps anyone. and I don't think it's helpful for dysphoric trans people to point fingers at trans people with different experiences and say, "you're the reason no one is taking us seriously!!" no, no one is taking us seriously because they refuse to have empathy and to consider all of our varying experiences as real and important.

so I definitely don't think different manifestations of being trans takes us backwards. if anything, it moves us forward in understanding what a strange, unreliable category physical sex is when it comes to defining people. if you want a quick crash course in the ways in which physical sex can be a questionable biological category, you could check out anne fausto-sterling's sexing the body, which I found to be a super interesting perspective.

as for the other things you mention -- people who ID as otherkin certainly get quite a lot of flak when they come near social justice movements, but it is worth mentioning that the vast majority of them do not claim to be oppressed for their otherkin identity, and most agree that those who do claim that are usually trolls. I personally view it as a pretty harmless spiritual belief that isn't any weirder than any other spiritual belief. identifying strongly with animals or nature, or believing in past lives, is pretty tame actually. but I guess they get a lot of hate because people view them as really weird or ridiculous. but considering the fact that you're rarely going to come across an otherkin person IRL (whether because they are rare or because they wouldn't want to admit it IRL), and that they usually do not claim oppression, I don't think that the existence of otherkin really is going to be a strong driving force in taking us backwards as a society or in hijacking social justice movements, in the long run.

being triggered by pictures of fire would be quite understandable if the person had a traumatic experience involving fire. there are all sorts of things that trauma survivors might be triggered by, and I'm sure those who have more unconventional triggers feel just as inconvenienced and embarrassed by them as other people feel annoyed by and judgmental of them.
I agree though with what you're saying about trigger warnings only being used for really big/common triggers, such as sexual violence or violence against marginalized groups, etc. -- at least in an academic context. there are too many varying experiences that traumatized ppl have and it would be unrealistic to cover them all. in a setting like the internet, though, where online posts can be very quickly and easily tagged, I don't think it's really a bad thing to cover less common triggers if that's something you feel like doing.

LOL, sorry it seems like I'm playing devil's advocate here. but really I think that a lot of these people who are allegedly destroying the movement and making everyone else look bad are either: A. not as common or as big of a problem as they are perceived to be, or B. have been misunderstood and are experiencing legitimate issues.

of course I see where you're coming from here, and I understand the desire to want to sort of 'clean up the movement' or whatever and keep out people who will make others look bad or take things in a bad direction, but it's sort of tricky deciding exactly what a true 'bad egg' would look like and why, in some situations. it's hard to say who would truly have the power to do that. I guess in a lot of cases, that 'power' would manifest as people seeing someone they decide is "too crazy" and using that experience to decide social justice causes as a whole are inherently "too crazy." but I have to question who would be more at fault here -- the "crazy" person, or the person who makes that choice to not show empathy, to dismiss the experiences of others, and to use the behavior of certain individuals as justification to not explore specific issues more deeply?

now, don't think I'm blind to the fact that there IS an interesting spike in people on the internet, mostly preteens/teens, who fit roughly into a same general pattern: they have an interest in social justice issues, they identify with the otherkin/therian community, they either have DID or experience symptoms of DID....etc.
that community is definitely there, and that's usually the community that is most frequently accused of being "SJWs" and harming social movements. I can't relate to immediately feeling scornful of these sorts of people. in fact, I feel pretty indifferent when I come across someone like that. but many people accuse them of being "special snowflakes" who are seeking attention, and feel quite annoyed with them.

personally, my first instinct is not to go that route, but to really wonder why this is something that is occurring more commonly. yes, it might be possible that some of these young people, or even most, are adopting these identities or possibly fabricating experiences in order to fit into a specific group online, but it feels too easy to come to that conclusion. I really don't believe everyone who is like this is just seeking attention - that's an oversimplification of things IMO. note that most people who fit this description are preteens/teens who are mentally ill and/or belong to other marginalized groups. now that these sort of things are being talked about more, it only makes sense that more young people will become self-aware in these respects and will feel more comfortable with and interested in finding communities of similar people for support and camaraderie.

so perhaps otherkin/therian identities are becoming more popular with (esp. mentally ill/marginalized) young people as a way of coping with struggles in their life. could DID actually be increasing in youth for some reason? are young people either pretending to feel, or tricking themselves into feeling, symptoms of DID as a way to help organize their thoughts/get things done/make sense of themselves? I don't have the answers, but I'd love for this topic to be explored further in a less judgmental way.
I have actually met, IRL, one kid who belongs to the group I'm describing. I know that he sees a therapist who he talks to about all these things (incl. DID-like symptoms), and if that professional therapist hasn't dismissed all of his experiences as fake and made up for attention, then I certainly don't see why I would. I can't relate to these sorts of feelings at all and I can readily admit that it has made me feel a little awkward or uncomfortable when he mentions them, especially because the expectation that I should be dismissing him as an irritating, fake, special snowflake is so deeply ingrained at this point. but I really do think it is the right thing to have empathy and let him talk freely and do my best to understand where he is coming from and why. to accept that these experiences are legitimate in some way. and I've actually really enjoyed thinking a lot about otherkin (and, especially the big controversy -- fictionkin!) and theorizing what those feelings are like. thinking about how a lot of people probably experience similar feelings, but not everyone comes to the 'otherkin' conclusion from having those feelings.

I think we'll have more answers about this phenomenon in the future, when these kids get older. will they still feel the same way at all? what will they have to say about this aspect of their young lives? will the "trend" continue on in new generations, or die out, and why? again, I don't have the answers and we're gonna have to wait for them.

but in the meantime --- these sort of people, commonly described as "special snowflake SJWs," really are mostly just kids/teens who are mentally ill and are figuring themselves out, working out ways to deal with their problems, trying to find community, trying to find ways to comfort themselves. sure, maybe they'll come to realize some of the stuff they were experiencing isn't going to be a permanent thing, or even that some of it wasn't genuinely how they were feeling.
but right now, am I going to accuse mentally ill kids of somehow ruining social justice movements just because of how they happen to be dealing with their lives right now? nahhh. we've all done, said, and felt things as kids that we don't relate to at all now. that's normal. no need to punish young people for it. I'm an adult, I can express my thoughts and feelings on being a queer person, or on being a mentally ill person, or what-have-you, without having to blame kids and teens for making me look bad.

oh man you guys, I'm sorry if I kind of derailed here. it is nice to try and work out some of my thoughts on these things, though. don't hate me :P
Gaze
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