Timon

[Carl]

^ Only what is official is canon. It's not opinion. It's what the company says is official. Therefore, by default, the series, and all the comics and books, are semicanon. Fans can't change that.

There were a few references to the human world because it is kind of unavoidable, and as it was there weren't stores or human objects the characters had access to, and that's what I meant. It's not like a human city is what a meerkat colony would be like.

Whether or not a person feels sorry for the character depends on the person, and in the movie, he didn't leave his post. He still failed to be sure, but he didn't do it deliberately.

And you can't boast your opinion as if it is fact.

And the answer to your last question, since you wanna have attitude, it was for the sake of comedy.

[EdtheHyena]

ok, I'm sorry, but someone took it seriously by giving me some sort of serious answer...

...also, most people haven't seen the series? What do you mean? I assume as many people have seen it as have seen the sequels.

[Carl]

[quote="EdtheHyena"]ok, I'm sorry, but someone took it seriously by giving me some sort of serious answer...[/quote]
When you ask a question on here, unless you've been proven to be a troll, people will take it seriously and give you a serious answer. I don't know why you'd ask if you didn't want a serious answer.

[quote]...also, most people haven't seen the series? What do you mean? I assume as many people have seen it as have seen the sequels.[/quote]
I said lots of people have not seen it, not most people haven't. And I, for one, have only seen bits and pieces of the series, as have many younger viewers because it no longer airs and for some reason or another those people could not watch it when it originally did. It's not on DVD somewhere, or if it is, it's crazy hard to find, and there's only a few episodes on YouTube. A lot of the people (not most) on this site are like 13, they've seen both of the sequels in many cases but are too young to have seen the series. Others are just too young to remember it. It wasn't a big success like the movies, and it's hard for people to get these days so yeah, a lot of people haven't seen it.

[Timon the great]

[quote="Julie Skywalker"]^ Actually, I think you and Regulus both are sort of right. Timon's not all selfish, but he's not all selfless either. You both make good points, and you both have a few flimsy points. It all comes down to perception in the end, because no one can know for sure what was in Timon's head, so in the end, it's just how he seemed to each person.[/quote]
I will have to sort of deny what you said. Simply because of the fact that many of these things that AnnaM talked about Timon toward what Regulus stated, are correct about him in the films. Regulus feels that he can run down a long explanation of what he sees without giving much consideration into Everything there is to consider about Timon, especially in TLK 3.

The fact of the matter here is not everything about him is meant to be perceived, because some things (and I will state this again in the future, if need be), are made clear as daylight about Timon, just like it is with the other main LK characters in one way or another.
_____________________________________________________

I won't be running down another story long explanation and I really didn't want to get back into this ordeal because it's really just hurting Timon's topic more than helping. But TLK 3 has given out more than enough direct official evidence that he is a legitimate LK hero.

He even went to the point of helping Simba lure the hyenas away and risking his Own life in order to save Ma, Pumbaa and Uncle Max from the hyenas at Pride Rock, near the end of this TLK film. So I will totally reject with what anyone who says that Timon left others around him out to dry or that he literally didn't care about anyone else but himself, which is just completely false about him from the films to begin with.

He may, at times, look like that on the outside, but that doesn't mean anything that he is, at heart. If it turns out that there is something not really clear about himself from the films, then I will give consideration into what others say about it.

Either people just don't care about giving any thought or consideration whatsoever about what's really shown in the films, or they just don't care at all with what they say about things like this because they say he's "not real" and so they feel they can bash him like no tomorrow. On the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me that they see their favorite character(s) as "real" in one way or another.

It's no surprise to me how many people out there are nowadays. I am seeing more and more people choosing to point out all the "bad" things about a movie or character especially on the Internet. Same thing with the LK fandom, in which more people seem to care about talking about all the negative stuff about characters like Timon being selfish or whatever, than talk about all the good things about their own favorite characters, which really baffles me. It seriously does and I don't fully understand why. The good thing here though, is that all this bad talk has only made me stronger in my defense for Timon.

Overall, with this meerkat pal, I'm just tired of reading the same inaccurate stuff about him everywhere from the films and therefore, I'm going to move away from this regardless of what other replies I see focusing on this lame matter, and focus on telling about the truly good and accurate things about Timon from these official works of the LK films in my next reply, because he does have a lot of them to hold on to. So I'm never going to back down on these things.

I don't think I've ever mentioned on this forum that he is perfect. And it's because he's not perfect and has his own hard-on experiences like with his meerkat colony that makes him that much more interesting. The fact of the matter is that as soon as he realizes he did wrong, he quickly dusts himself off and corrects his mistakes. It's Not because he was forced to, but because he genuinely wants to do good. Again, this is what TLK 3 shows.

As much as what some say about Timon makes me want to do the same to other characters (and that is pointing out all the accurate bad things about them, like the fact that Simba was a coward for not telling Timon and Pumbaa about who he really is in the first place when they rescued him, until he was forced to by Nala in TLK 1), I don't.

That's because I generally have respect for All of them. Even Zazu who I see is the worst, because they all make TLK with what it is from the films.

[Carl]

^ None of that disproves my post that you quoted. Of course all of the characters have bad qualities and no one is all good. But you can't expect everyone to like Timon, just like I can't expect everyone to like Nala or Vitani. You can't take everything people say about your favourite character so personally, that's why there's mudslinging. Regulus has not been bashing Timon, he's been explaining why he doesn't like him. I don't even dislike Timon, I like the character and admit fully that both Regulus and AnnaM had solid points.

But at the end of the day, everything is perception. You can perceive something as noble where another will perceive it as selfish and only the person who committed the act knows for a fact which it is. You perceive Timon in a highly positive light. That's great! You have a strong connection with the character and you like him. But not everyone can see it the way you do. Different upbringings and different life experiences will show people to interpret things in different ways. Everything that anyone has mentioned in this thread has been their opinion, their perception, their interpretation based on the specific facts the film gives. You can't prove that Timon wasn't selfish anymore than Regulus can prove he was.

Everything in the human experience is based on perception. That's just how it is. Somethings are facts, other things we can only guess at. The true character of a person (or in this case, character) is not definitely provable, it's all subjective. Not a single person in this thread is right or wrong about their judgments of Timon's character.

[juhouh]

Timon is just a joke character like Pumbaa. They're there for kids so they can laugh. After all I always enjoyed their TV spin-off series

[Bloodspill]

True, but you gotta admit they made him interesting joke character. You can understand his personality on many different levels; he is full of opposites himself. Sometimes he seems to be eternal optimist, sometimes he becomes sarcastic.
Sometimes I wish TLK3 was all about lions, but I like Timon's story. He's one of the most humanized characters in LK. I mean, not many people are wise and strong and loved by everyone like Mufasa, but I know many people can relate to Timon.

[EdtheHyena]

[quote="Julie Skywalker"]^ None of that disproves my post that you quoted. Of course all of the characters have bad qualities and no one is all good. But you can't expect everyone to like Timon, just like I can't expect everyone to like Nala or Vitani. You can't take everything people say about your favourite character so personally, that's why there's mudslinging. Regulus has not been bashing Timon, he's been explaining why he doesn't like him. I don't even dislike Timon, I like the character and admit fully that both Regulus and AnnaM had solid points.

But at the end of the day, everything is perception. You can perceive something as noble where another will perceive it as selfish and only the person who committed the act knows for a fact which it is. You perceive Timon in a highly positive light. That's great! You have a strong connection with the character and you like him. But not everyone can see it the way you do. Different upbringings and different life experiences will show people to interpret things in different ways. Everything that anyone has mentioned in this thread has been their opinion, their perception, their interpretation based on the specific facts the film gives. You can't prove that Timon wasn't selfish anymore than Regulus can prove he was.

Everything in the human experience is based on perception. That's just how it is. Somethings are facts, other things we can only guess at. The true character of a person (or in this case, character) is not definitely provable, it's all subjective. Not a single person in this thread is right or wrong about their judgments of Timon's character.[/quote]

Well put. I understand because I perceive Shenzi, Banzai and Ed in a highly positive light---in my opinion, they are perfect, even if they have flaws like the rest of the cast.

BTW, Julie, why did you change you picture? It had Brian on it...and I love Brian...

[Timon the great]

[quote="Bloodspill"]True, but you gotta admit they made him interesting joke character. You can understand his personality on many different levels; he is full of opposites himself. Sometimes he seems to be eternal optimist, sometimes he becomes sarcastic.
Sometimes I wish TLK3 was all about lions, but I like Timon's story. He's one of the most humanized characters in LK. I mean, not many people are wise and strong and loved by everyone like Mufasa, but I know many people can relate to Timon.[/quote]
Now this is something I can 90% agree on in the last few posts made by other members, because it's thankfully not really biased at all. This is something that mostly does define him from the films.

He can actually be eternally optimistic and sarcastic at the same time when you really look at him. I've always noticed myself that it's hard to lose hope with him. It really is, because the sarcasm of his is harmless and intriguing and his comedy especially from TLK 3 is meaningful and you can sense that hope from it and he's all still sensitive. But if you don't have a good sense of humor, then I can see that this is where some take Timon hard to the point that they see he's actually a bad person. But then again, that would easily be taking him out of context too.

And with the humanized thing, great work on saying this. He pretty much is too and it's really hard to look at him as "just a meerkat", you could say. But even so, it doesn't matter because it's still all good and he Is a person.

On a side note, I'm pretty sure there's some out there who don't like Mufasa as well. The majority probably does. But not every single person will.

[quote="Julie Skywalker"]^ None of that disproves my post that you quoted. Of course all of the characters have bad qualities and no one is all good. But you can't expect everyone to like Timon, just like I can't expect everyone to like Nala or Vitani. You can't take everything people say about your favourite character so personally, that's why there's mudslinging. Regulus has not been bashing Timon, he's been explaining why he doesn't like him. I don't even dislike Timon, I like the character and admit fully that both Regulus and AnnaM had solid points.

But at the end of the day, everything is perception. You can perceive something as noble where another will perceive it as selfish and only the person who committed the act knows for a fact which it is. You perceive Timon in a highly positive light. That's great! You have a strong connection with the character and you like him. But not everyone can see it the way you do. Different upbringings and different life experiences will show people to interpret things in different ways. Everything that anyone has mentioned in this thread has been their opinion, their perception, their interpretation based on the specific facts the film gives. You can't prove that Timon wasn't selfish anymore than Regulus can prove he was.

Everything in the human experience is based on perception. That's just how it is. Somethings are facts, other things we can only guess at. The true character of a person (or in this case, character) is not definitely provable, it's all subjective. Not a single person in this thread is right or wrong about their judgments of Timon's character.[/quote]
I'm sorry, but the only real thing I can see from everything you wrote here is the simple fact that either you believe everything you've said is correct and/or after I wrote the post before yours, you did this in order to help yourself feel better after everything I pointed out in the post before. It's basically the same action Regulus did after he saw Zonofon's response in the beginning of this topic. You can't also expect me to automatically agree with your statements, just because you completely said so in just your own words and nothing else. I would like to see some kind of proof even just a reference and not just hard-on opinion or personal experience.

Think about this when it comes to perception, perceiving things completely in one's own way is the reason why we have people, for example, behind bars. They have ill-conformity to moral standards and believe that what they know is right is what led them to jail. The only way they can truly get out of there is by changing themselves and conforming more to the standards of morality.

Eventually, the truth or realties of this life catches up to everyone. And so this goes hand in hand with the realities of Timon's character. It doesn't mean that his intentions are bad at all. But eventually people are forced to change themselves when life really comes down on them.

You can also claim all you want that Regulus didn't bash Timon. But if you look at these two quotes of his from page 1 (and there's a lot more of them than just these), they show otherwise. He even said it himself in the second one:

[quote="Regulus"]He didn't even get exiled, so it wasn't like that. He left his family because of the severity of his acute cranial rectitis. He was too absorbed in himself to do any job or contribute to his colony in any way, but he couldn't see it. He was incapable of fathoming the idea that he was wrong to think the way he did.[/quote]
[quote]Besides, Timon isn't real, so I can be as biased and harsh as I want with my assessments of his thoughts, actions, and intentions without any moral or ethical repercussions. Such character assessments are an integral component of rhetorical analysis for just about any story.[/quote]
Again, the first quote is blind to the evidence of Timon in this scene from his film because this part proves otherwise that Timon is sensitive to thought and considerate to others around him, and both quotes are just completely biased in general. If you don't see a fictional character as real in anyway, then how can you cherish them or even value anything about them in this life? The imagination is what allows characters like Timon to exist in the first place. But I'll leave this part as that since I've already talked about this on the forum already.

Everything I've written in this post isn't something I'm ever going to back away from because I know it is correct about what I've already said about Timon. It's not about perception or opinion, that I want everyone to like him, *Very honestly, I would actually love to see others give more support on here to their favorite characters instead of bashing one they don't like which is just completely wrong, no matter how someone else sees this*, or that I let myself take what others say about him personally. When people say such inaccurate things about someone (even a fictional person), you can expect that it's not always going to remain silent for what they said.

On the contrary, I could give less of a thing about what negative things people have to say about him. But that's not who I am. I do look at what others have to say if they have valid reasoning. And true, like you said, not everything can be made clear about a main character from a film. That, I've already realized is truth. But since Timon is a central LK protagonist (because of TLK 3), a lot of it is. People need to try and take a little more time to look further into these things and also because he's not a simple comic relief character at all, but seriously a heck of a lot more than that because of TLK 3.

With me, it's simply about what is clear about him from the films and nothing else. You may also want to consider looking at the comments on this before replying to see how these recurring negative responses in the past have personally made me feel: http://www.animationsource.org/lion_kin ... id_film=15. It's been like a wildfire that never gets put out, but I can surely leave it all behind for the better.

All in all, reply again if you must. But for someone to deny for example that he is a good person, is simply failure to accept who he truly is from the films (especially TLK 3). A scene like this, gives No indication at all that he is truly selfish. It just doesn't because one of the intents of this film's creators was to show that Timon truly isn't a bad person (even when he tells us, yes Us, like in this part about what he's experiencing/thinking in a sensitively intriguing way) and so this is where my evidence is going to always come from, because it's official with the original TLK. People can short-stroke this all they want, but it doesn't change any of the numerous facts from TLK 3 about Timon that I've already stated here. That evidence never changes. It never does from a film. So I'm done with this.

[Carl]

^ Seriously, you are overreacting. I agree with you for the most part about Timon's character. The only thing I've been saying for the past several posts is that not everyone interprets actions the same way. I can see where people would think he's selfish and where other's wouldn't. The FACT is that people don't always have the same perception of an event. That's all I have said. You cannot convince someone who views Timon as selfish that he isn't because there is evidence to support that theory as well as the theory that he isn't. That's literally ALL I have said. And I didn't say it to "make myself feel better" because it is my view on almost every topic that people are allowed to have different opinions. You are acting like they cannot. You're acting like they have to like Timon, or they're wrong. People are different and quite honestly, if you can't accept the fact that people will disagree with you about your character, then you shouldn't be on a forum in the first place. I'm not even the one who disagrees with you about him, and you're getting riled up about my post.