What are you thinking RIGHT NOW?

[mamaprince]

I really need to go to sleep. Lol

[Azdgari]

Even longer post. Please take everything I write with a massive pile of salt. I'm not a fifty year old HR veteran. I'm one year out of college, working in the field I'm trained in, and have recently started interviewing candidates for my company. My perspective is obviously limited. But here are some thoughts, which you can take or leave.

[quote="Regulus"]Now here's the killer, I think. In most of my interviews, I've been asked if I currently have a job, if I've ever had a job, or if I've ever had an internship. And the answer to all these questions is no. Besides being shy, this is really my biggest weakness.[/quote]
So--I would probably agree with your diagnosis. This is a disadvantage, for sure. Not an insurmountable one at all, but something you should be cognizant of and strategize around. One of the big red flags this raises is that any job, no matter how technical, has a huge swath of non-technical components. Your capacity to work on a team. Your capacity to appropriately interpret client requests--or understand that clients are often irrational, with changing demands and asks, and the understanding that you have to suck that up. Your ability to interact with management--to manage up or down. Your ability to do the small stuff--send emails appropriately, behave correctly in a workplace, make it into work at 9AM every day, etc etc. This all sounds stupid, I'm sure, but it's true: a lot of the true value, to an HR team, of an internship is that it allows employers to say "Well, somebody else already did the smell test, and have attested to the fact that this person understands how to function and behave in a professional environment."

[quote]If asked, I give a little about my background. I state that I'm a recent graduate and list some of the (non-professional) design projects I've worked on.[/quote]
And here, I think, sounds like the best thing to counteract the above problem. Can you elaborate more on these? Were these projects with a university mentor (e.g. professor)? Was there a teamwork component? I imagine that you spinning these projects in the correct ways could make them effective substitutes for work experience. "However, this project was absolutely quasi-professional in nature and atmosphere. I worked on a goal-oriented team under direction from my professor, in an environment where we were all accountable for completing our work at certain standards under a certain timetable. We worked with the end-users of this product in mind, and it was a great opportunity for me to exercise my technical ability with client-focus, something that I think was invaluable in preparing me to be a professional engineer. Our final deliverable was X tangible thing." I don't know if you try to spin like that, but that's something that comes to mind.

[quote]I state that I'm much more curious than the average person. Most engineering students only want to be told the answer. I like to go beyond that. I like to know why. This has given me a deeper understanding of concepts and principles than the majority of students have.

If I'm asked why I want this job or what my career goals are, I explain this: "I'm looking for a job that challenges me. There are many jobs that would be very challenging, but I'm not qualified for them. I'm interested in this one because it looks like a good match for my skills and abilities. It would be challenging enough to be satisfying, but not so challenging that I could not do it with integrity."[/quote]
This sounds excellent to me.

[quote]For every position I've interviewed for, there have always been at least one or two job requirements that I've not met, or not been totally comfortable on. When it comes up, I do mention that in the interview. I'll say, "That's something I don't have much experience with, but I would look forward to learning more about it on the job." Sure, I could lie about having experience with that thing, but I don't want to do that. I'm trying to build credibility here, and I don't want to get myself into a job because I lied about skills that I don't have.[/quote]
This also sounds also excellent.

[quote]I know Tesla has a high turnover rate, and I understand why. Many of my fellow engineering students don't have the same natural curiosity that I have. They're in it for the money. I know this isn't supposed to be a technical interview, but if it was, that's where I would stand out among other applicants. My resume is good, but it's not great. I didn't care about making it great. I haven't had any fancy titles or worked at any prestigious companies. I didn't even go to career mixers. Internships and professional networking were things that I just never considered to be a priority. Instead, I spent my time learning, studying, and developing a deep understanding of technical subjects. That's what I've cared about, and that's what I've always been interested in. And, I think that would become apparent if my technical knowledge is put to the test.[/quote]
This has good bones, but I strongly caution you against characterizing other candidates this way, even if it's true. Teamwork is paramount at most companies, and lots of HR folks will raise immediate red flags towards any sort of "lift me up by pulling you down" lines of thought. It's true, a lot of people in these fields are in it for cash. But it's not about saying why they suck, it's about saying why you're better.

[quote]Anyway, I have a few ideas already for how I can improve. I was thinking of starting off the interviews by asking why the person decided to reach out to me. This could help me by doing two things. It would give me confidence in knowing that something I wrote on my resume impressed them, and it would give me a bit of an idea on what part of my background I should talk about.[/quote]
This could be a good idea. Just depends on who's in the driver's seat as the interview starts.

[quote]Another idea: I should ask the person what problems someone in the position could solve. More than likely, they're an HR person that can't answer anything detailed in any sort of way. But if they can, that would give me the opportunity to either describe how I could help, describe something similar that I did, or at least say, "that sounds interesting."[/quote]
This is, by far, the best question a candidate can ask. "What makes a great [insert job title here]?" As an interviewer, that means that this person is already considering what success looks like in the role. They're not interested in getting a job, they're interest in succeeding in the work that the company does.

[FlipMode]

As someone who has in the last year also been interviewing and hiring, I agree with a lot of what Az said for sure.
I also really like it when a candidate asks question about the company. I.E what steps does Tesla make in their manufacturing processes to reduce waste and pollution in line with their ethics regarding electric vehicles? Something like that.

And also while it is okay to be shy, do try not to let that get in the way of presenting yourself in the best way you can. Being the only candidate who shakes the employers hand for instance can help just that little bit more.

Re: Asking why they reached out to you for the interview, that can be a good idea some times but personally I would leave that question to last. Or after the interview if you are unsuccessful you could contact them again and ask that as a means of constructive feedback.

[DGFone]

Reg, as someone who is also in the engineering field, as much as it might be bad to listen to, here is the cold hard truth:

No resume without any work experience can be qualified as "good". With the way hiring is going on for engineers at the moment, the best way I heard described was this: There is a severe shortage of engineers, and getting a job will be very easy...

... if you have the minimum of 5 years experience that they ask for.

Some positions would tolerate someone with less experience, but you can hand the best interview, but with your lack of any work experience is going to be the real killer of the deal. It might almost be better for you to look for any kind of work outside of engineering just to get "I can do work and here's proof" before trying to get back into the engineering field.

[mamaprince]

I can never get him back... / He's never coming back...

[Regulus]

Az, Flip, and DG:

I understand why work experience is valuable to employers, and I'm not denying that. I knew the odds were stacked against me, and it didn't take me long to figure out how bad they are. I've been holding out hope that I can get through those odds to get to the end goal that I'm seeking, but increasingly it looks like that won't be the case. To say it's troubling would be an understatement.

At some point very soon, I'm going to have to make a choice. You guys know what that choice is. I've had back-up plans in place for years, but it's time I seriously consider them. I don't know that there's even a right choice or a wrong choice, but what I choose will determine the direction my life will go. And it won't be an easy decision to make.

Now, to be clear, I don't expect anyone to have all the answers, and I don't expect anyone to make this decision but me. But, me being me, I'm looking for all the wisdom I can get. I'm one person and I have only a very narrow view of the world. It was my own narrow view that led me into this position, a mistake I'm not keen to make a second time.

[FlipMode]

I couldn't get a job doing what I wanted, so I worked for a few years to save up the money and opened my own business and now I do
Granted it's not to do with engineering but the drive to succeed will get you there, even if you do decide to temporarily use your back up plan.

Also is there any voluntary stuff you could do?
Because I mean look at the positives, you have some free time at the moment, dedicate it to something awesome.

[SimbasMate]

I don't want to do homework. I just want to take a nap..

[Azdgari]

[quote="Regulus"]Az, Flip, and DG:

At some point very soon, I'm going to have to make a choice. You guys know what that choice is. I've had back-up plans in place for years, but it's time I seriously consider them. I don't know that there's even a right choice or a wrong choice, but what I choose will determine the direction my life will go. And it won't be an easy decision to make.[/quote]
I would strongly, strongly recommend that your first line of attack be to take a) something unpaid in the field that might not care as much about less prior experience or b) similarly, take something you're overqualified for. Both of those will quickly remedy your biggest problem, which is just having work experience of some sort. And given how competent you are, you're likely to quickly excel and grow beyond the initial 'constraints' of the opportunity. I understand that unpaid internships can be difficult to swing financially--for what it's worth, getting through the process and getting the offer and then asking for a living stipend or something similar can be a successful strategy.

Investing some time (i.e. a year) in a less-than-ideal role that's at least in your field strikes me as a much better long-term investment than abandoning the field. You're clearly passionate about engineering and are confident that you're highly competent and have an affinity for this stuff. You're set up to succeed, so maybe it might be the unfortunate, unfair situation of having to swallow your pride and come in under where you might want to. Once you're in the ring, you can start punching above your weight.

Just my two cents!

[Gemini]

[quote="DGFone"] It might almost be better for you to look for any kind of work outside of engineering just to get "I can do work and here's proof" before trying to get back into the engineering field.[/quote]

I find myself agreeing with this. I'm no expert but I found I had quite a bit of thoughts on the subject based off my own, my graduated friends' and my father's experiences (none of which I was able to articulate before this thread took off - my bad).

I'll elaborate more when I get home but so far I would agree with your assessment that the single biggest obstacle to your getting a job isn't your ability to present yourself but your lack of work experience - that's definitely going to work against you unfortunately.