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The Mohatu debate

PostPosted: October 15th, 2018, 5:55 pm
by gothprincesskiara
Forgive me if there was already something made for this topic, but since I have noticed how there is a big TLK debate over Mohatu either being Ahadis :ahadi: father or Uru's, I am actually shocked of what I have researched, but once again, to me its just so frustrating to know what to trust online anymore as anyone out there can change the information in anything, but it also depends on how accurate these resources are so long as they have REFERENCES and BIBLIOGRAPHYS at the bottom of these sites. Here is what I have known as a lion king fan growing up, at first from doing so much TLK web surfing as a kid and reading SO MUCH fan fiction stories from the fan fic Library I used alot like this one http://www.lionking.org/text/ (alot of stories have disappeared and alot a has changed here over many years), and based on Character lists in these stories http://www.lionking.org/text/Encyclopedia.txt, it was Mohatu being Ahadis father, but I stopped reading fan fiction long ago, and because I rely on what Disney gives us, they are the true wizards of any DIsney story lore and what they choose to do with it. But Mohatu mostly comes from those Adventure Books NOT officially claimed by Disney, and yet it would be so cool but wishful thinking that Disney would solve this for us, but until they claim those stories, this debate will remain up in the air with different theories and opinions. So I figured I would also create a voting poll here, Which do you think it is or should be, Urs or Ahadis father, BUT FOR ME? I believe that Mohatu IS father to Ahadi. You can also vote on My Facebook RP page. just click the link on my signature below.

Re: The Mohatu debate

PostPosted: October 15th, 2018, 10:58 pm
by TheLionPrince
I don't think Mohatu even qualifies as canon since Kopa doesn't even exist in the film universe which means Ahadi and Mufasa and Scar's backstory aren't canon either. If Ahadi doesn't exist, then, the story of Simba's great-grandfather has nothing to connect to.

For the sake of the topic, I like the idea that Uru is Mohatu's daughter since fans depict her as a dark-furred lioness, although she would be the regnant queen, which isn't the case. Since Ahadi seems to be the regnant king in his story, he has to be Mohatu's son. Perhaps, Ahadi looks more like his mother since he has a black mane and green eyes while Mohatu is basically a dark-furred version of Mufasa.

Re: The Mohatu debate

PostPosted: October 19th, 2018, 5:02 am
by DGFone
I didn't do too much digging into it for this topic, but the most common arrangement I see is that Uru is Mohatu's daughter, and Ahadi is a stranger who comes along and joins the Pride Lands. As TheLionPrince points out in his post, the most common fan theory is that Uru is the direct bloodline for Mufasa and Scar to Mohatu, and is generally depicted as having the dark fur complexion that Scar gets in the movie.

My two cents? While it's true that a fan theory can virally blow up to became de facto canon, such as with Sky Winter in the Zootopia fanon - a random piece of development art turned into a full character, it, just like with the Sky example, still takes at least a kernel of proper source material to take off like that. In this case, sure, Six New Adventures is not considered canon ever since Simba's Pride came out. But now with The Lion Guard retconing a lot of things in the movies as well, it's not like Simba's Pride holds much legitimacy in this case as well. Six New Adventures was, ultimately commissioned and created under the direction of Disney, making it far more legitimate a source than any piece of fan creation. And until we get a newer, 'more legitimate' source to contradict Six New Adventures, it is canon as far as anyone can be concerned.

So, IMO, Uru is Mohatu's daughter, as is the most common depiction of her.

Re: The Mohatu debate

PostPosted: October 19th, 2018, 4:41 pm
by TheLionPrince
DGFone wrote:I didn't do too much digging into it for this topic, but the most common arrangement I see is that Uru is Mohatu's daughter, and Ahadi is a stranger who comes along and joins the Pride Lands. As TheLionPrince points out in his post, the most common fan theory is that Uru is the direct bloodline for Mufasa and Scar to Mohatu, and is generally depicted as having the dark fur complexion that Scar gets in the movie.

My two cents? While it's true that a fan theory can virally blow up to became de facto canon, such as with Sky Winter in the Zootopia fanon - a random piece of development art turned into a full character, it, just like with the Sky example, still takes at least a kernel of proper source material to take off like that. In this case, sure, Six New Adventures is not considered canon ever since Simba's Pride came out. But now with The Lion Guard retconing a lot of things in the movies as well, it's not like Simba's Pride holds much legitimacy in this case as well. Six New Adventures was, ultimately commissioned and created under the direction of Disney, making it far more legitimate a source than any piece of fan creation. And until we get a newer, 'more legitimate' source to contradict Six New Adventures, is canon as far as anyone can be concerned.

So, IMO, Uru is Mohatu's daughter, as is the most common depiction of her.


I'm having trouble trying to comprehend what you're trying to say because you didn't place a noun after the comma following Six New Adventures. So, you think Mufasa and Scar's story as told in the book is still considered canon because it hasn't been replaced by another story?

Re: The Mohatu debate

PostPosted: October 19th, 2018, 7:07 pm
by DGFone
^Lol, fixed. But to answer your question, yes, I do consider Six New Adventures to be canon as long as no newer material has contradicted it.

Re: The Mohatu debate

PostPosted: October 19th, 2018, 7:24 pm
by TheLionPrince
Alright. Either way, canon continuity in The Lion King franchise is a disorganized mess if you ask me. For me, I can't put "The Tale of Two Brothers" and Mufasa and Scar's backstory as revealed in The Lion Guard together because the stories feel so different. Plus, it was explained in Simba's Pride that a facial scar like Scar's and Kovu's comes from a lion claw. A scar from the horns of a water buffalo could potentially be enough to blind a lion.

Lastly, Six New Adventures is built around Kopa. If your main character isn't canon, how can the supporting events be? (This is a rhetorical question. You don't have to answer it.)

Re: The Mohatu debate

PostPosted: October 19th, 2018, 8:07 pm
by WildSimba
DGFone wrote:^Lol, fixed. But to answer your question, yes, I do consider Six New Adventures to be canon as long as no newer material has contradicted it.


But it's not canon, the creators themselves have confirmed that it's (officially licensed) fan-fiction. lol

Re: The Mohatu debate

PostPosted: October 19th, 2018, 8:20 pm
by Elton John
the creators of the original had very little to do with anything after the original.

Disney owns the IP, so they have the final say on what is canon or not and they have decided that the six new adventures isn’t canon. They decided that 20 years ago but fans can’t seem to get that through their heads.

Re: The Mohatu debate

PostPosted: October 19th, 2018, 8:43 pm
by WildSimba
Elton John wrote:the creators of the original had very little to do with anything after the original.

Disney owns the IP, so they have the final say on what is canon or not and they have decided that the six new adventures isn’t canon. They decided that 20 years ago but fans can’t seem to get that through their heads.


That was more what I was trying to get at but you put it a lot better. lol If we were going off of "it's official until something else replaces it" that would make a lot of fanfiction official. It's what disney decides is or isn't official within the universe because they're the ones officially working on the property. lol

Re: The Mohatu debate

PostPosted: October 19th, 2018, 10:33 pm
by FlipMode
yep just like disney did with star wars, fans spent years building some great stories, adding more depth to the characters and exploring more of the mythos and then disney bought the ip and said "NONE OF THAT AMAZING STUFF IS CANNON ANYMORE!" thanks for that mickey.
wait what were we talking about again? lion king? yeah that film is okay i guess