the position of the Outlands in TLK

[thanigraphics]

In TLK 1 you can see clearly where the gorge and the elephant graveyard are, sometimes you see Pride Rock in the background, or the view is from Pride rock itselves. But in SP, you can't see where the Outlands are positioned. They must be behind the gorge, because Kovu and Kiara cross that gorge when the final battle starts. And where's the Elephant graveyard in that movie? What happened to the hyena's?

[KopsTheTerminator]

The hyenas ran away after Simba became king due to lack of support. As for the graveyard, I don't know. We don't get to see the kingdom from Pride Rock again, do we? Maybe ''that shadowy place'' was the Outlands after all. lol.

[Simba93]

i think so too...

[Thani]

Today I noticed a scene in TLK-1/2 aka TLK-3, where the camera was rapidly panning backwards until it stopped at the Meerkat-Colony location.
It started looking over the area surrounding Pride Rock, eventhough Pride Rock itself had changed shape in every TLK movie, and even in comics, it hardly looks like the same old rock formation!

But as the camera started to move away from Pride Rock heading into Eastern direction, the lush green Pridelands were shown, followed by a river flowing through the lands. (The border young Kiara crossed over when she first met cub Kovu.) Immediatly followed up by barren desolate barren terrain with scattered bones (The Outlands..), then followed by a seemingly marshy area. And again followed by desolate terrain, this time supposedly being the desert where Timon and Pumbaa originally found cubby Simba in the first and last TLK movie. And immediatly after that a sole Baobab tree appears into the picture. That same Baobab is also supposedly depicted right after Mufasa confronted Scar for his absence. I stumbled accross a source stating the African monsoon was headed Southwardly bringing the rains with them during summer.. -- And again the camera continued to swiftly pan over some rocky canyon like area, finally coming to a halt at Timon's native Colony location..

Pride Rock seems to be sitting around something like 7 Kilometres/4.3 Miles away to my estimated n00b calculation. Yet I haven't seen the gorge where Mufasa was killed, come through the viewing screen.. But I know there are several fan-made maps of the Pridelands, and neigbouring Outlands. Yet many of them are drawn after the artist's own free interpretation, as no official Disney map is known to be published.

But to trying hard to solve this quest, we have to go back in time to the first released movie. While some regard the world of TLK-2:SP to be accurate conform the needs of the plot, I rather stick to including evidence from the original moviem as it provides excellent wide view shots accross the terrain.
While both Mufasa and cub Simba ascend to the top of Pride Rock, a grand view over the entire kingdom is presented. As Simba asked about the "Shadowy Place", Mufasa told him, that that was the beyond their border (East of the deviding river), and forbade the cub to ever venture into that area..

Also we all know the Sun rises in the east, no matter if you're located in the Northern or Southern Hemisphere, as the movie starts, we look directly into the rising Sun peering over the Savanna's. All the animals shown at the first segment of The Circle Of Life song are heading into the general direction of the Sun's rays due West -- As if it were the Star that guided the Three Kings, and Shepards alike towards a shed, were Joseph and Mary were residing at the night Jesus Christ was born.. But enough for religious chit-chat, as that clearly does not belong on the MLK at all! (Yet I couldn't resist comparing both scenes to one another.. -- Clearly the animals are heading West bound, accross the plains. We also can see Elephants splashing through a still shallow river just before the camera rotates over the back of the animals, to show Pride Rock for the first time.. Immediatly to the lower rear left, a mountainious area can be seen.. Also as Zazu lands on the promontory in front of Mufasa, Zazu's shadow is seen layed out between the bird's position and Mufasa's point of view indicating that the still rising sun shines westwards accross Pride Rock..

This is also shown as Rafiki moves through the gathered herds on his way to climb the Promontory. -- How the Mandrill managed to scale that height is unclear to me. -- He is welcomed on the promontory by Mufasa himself, whose lightsource seems to come directly opposite from the general direction he's looking at. And as the actual Ceremony begins, we'd see Rafiki break a nut or something, with Sunlight immediatly piercing through the resulting image, once the now separated halves parted.

Later on after Mufasa tracked down Scar to confront him over his absence at the Ceremony, we got an overview of the monsoon crossing over the Pridelands, as rainclouds unleash their drops over the vertile ground. Now about the African monsoon I looked up some handy information for you; I cite:

"African continent;

The monsoon of western Sub-Saharan Africa has traditionally been thought to be the result of the seasonal shifts of the Intertropical Convergence Zone and the great seasonal temperature and humidity differences between the Sahara and the equatorial Atlantic Ocean.[20] It migrates northward from the equatorial Atlantic in February, reaches western Africa on June 22, then moves back to the south by October.[21] The dry, northeasterly trade winds, and their more extreme form, the harmattan, are interrupted by the northern shift in the ITCZ and resultant southerly, rain-bearing winds during the summer. The semiarid Sahel and Sudan depend upon this pattern for most of their precipitationed area is desert."

This indicates that the rains come from the north during summertime.. Great for mapping reference I'd say!
Also we'd see a river span accross the lands as seen from from the top of Pride Rock as Mufasa informs Simba about the realms of their kingdom.. "Everything the light touches, is our kingdom.." And Simba questions the "Shadowy Place" and as seen from the top, it lays directly East of the great river, running along the North-South axis following their borders.. The same border the Outlands are positioned at! We again see this river, or atleast a shrunken version of it, as Kiara ventures over a log into the Outlands.. Bumping into Kovu for the first time, as depicted in TLK-2:SP..

Later on during Zira's assault converging into the Pridelands, we can assume the Outlanders came in from the the East, as Kovu is seen running away towards the East crossing the river deviding the Outlands from the Pridelands.. Also observe the drastically low level of water in the river. It's shallow enough for Kovu to pass through wading across. As the freshly exciled lion looked back over his shoulder, to take a last glance at a world not meant for him, we immediatly see those dark "shadowy place" rocks along the opposite riverbed.. And finally Zira and the Outsiders can be seen wading through the opposite way Kovu came back into the Outlands..

To summarize a few things:

The Sunrise occurs shining westward directly at the front half of Pride Rock..
The monsoon occurs southwardly coming in from the north..
We'd seen the first glimpse of "That Shadowy Place" laying at the beyond the East border..
Also with the help of TLK-2 material, we can conclude that the Outlands, probably Elephant Graveyard included, lies directly across the river shown due East from the top Of Pride Rock whilst Mufasa showed the Kingdom to young Simba.

I hope that this information helped to clear things up. As far as possible mistakes made by my summary, I have to admit I am a simple being, native to the Northern Hemisphere.. But I account for the Sun's constant Westbound move accross the skies until it sets..

Summertime Monsoon Dir.

N

^

^

^

^

Sunrise light direction
W <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Pride Rock

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E

Outlands/Elephant Graveyard

v

v

v

v

S

Timon's native Colony location,

[BR]

supposedly followed by Desert and Jungle.

[/BR]

I hope this makeshift compass will help giving a clear view on the directions for orientation.
Thanks for reading! And also thanks to ThaniGraphics for starting the post, which made me dig deeper into the matter at the first place! It sure was fun to me!!

[thanigraphics]

well, you're welcome my love! ^-^ I really like how you did an "investigation" about the matter
it sure is interesting!
What I am still confused about, is this: Did the makers of the three movies use the same map, or did they change locations of things? I know Pride Rock changed shape, but most things are right, even the hill you see when Zazu comes in view at the first time in TLK and in SP. But in SP no Elephant Graveyard was mentioned, what confuses me.... I also have the idea that the gorge in which Mufasa died changed position. When Mufasa is called by Scar to head towards the gorge, you see Pride Rock in the background. In the final fight in SP, it's ment to be the same gorge (if I'm right) but no Pride Rock is to be seen in the background.
The crocodile river from SP (and supposedly from TLK6NA) was not seen in the first movie.

By the way, I have a little theory, if you're right about that zooming-in thing from TLK3, where the desert is shown where nearly-dehydrated cubby Simba was found by T&P, then the jungle would be in front of it, right? (from the viewers point, further away from Pride Rock then the desert) Just curious....

Thanks for sharing your idea with me, it sure was very interesting to read, and I think it's a nice and well-considered answer from a fan with a lot of TLK-knowledge! *huggles*

[Thani]

[quote="thanigraphics"]What I am still confused about, is this: Did the makers of the three movies use the same map, or did they change locations of things? I know Pride Rock changed shape, but most things are right, even the hill you see when Zazu comes in view at the first time in TLK and in SP. But in SP no Elephant Graveyard was mentioned, what confuses me.... I also have the idea that the gorge in which Mufasa died changed position. When Mufasa is called by Scar to head towards the gorge, you see Pride Rock in the background. In the final fight in SP, it's ment to be the same gorge (if I'm right) but no Pride Rock is to be seen in the background.
The crocodile river from SP (and supposedly from TLK6NA) was not seen in the first movie.

By the way, I have a little theory, if you're right about that zooming-in thing from TLK3, where the desert is shown where nearly-dehydrated cubby Simba was found by T&P, then the jungle would be in front of it, right? (from the viewers point, further away from Pride Rock then the desert) Just curious..[/quote]

The creators of the three movies tried to be true to the original map locations mentioned in all the three movies.
"The Shadowy Place" young Simba was told about, clearly marks the land belonging to the Outsiders.
Scar also gave Simba the hint of a dangerous place over across the Border indeed just as you mentioned.

Also when Zazu receives news of of the underground, and raises the alarm calling out "Hyena's in the Pridelands!" Mufasa is seen running of a short distance, as he turned around to order Zazu to bring Simba home.. Yet as you look closely at the background, before Mufasa continues attending to the Hyena-problem, you can see a river running in the far background.. Perhaps multiple rivers run accross from all the Prideland's borders presumably running through the lands, as the Pridelands at their prime, seem to be well irrigated by a steady supply of water seeping all over the place.

The final fight in SP was raging in a severe rainstorm, that probably was caused by severely decreased visibility for result.
As for the Crocodile River, I really think it was supposed to be the river seen to the far right from the top of Pride Rock's overview in the first movie..

As for your theory about the Jungle's location, seeing from where T&P found the near dead cub, they moved off through the endless desert, only to reappear splashing water in cub Simba's face, to let him regain conciousness once again. Its true that the Jungle must be located way further south beyond Timon's native Colony location, as that bordered on rocky desert/sandy desert.. I also would like to call for the scene where the three pursuing Hyena's halted just short of the thornbushes, sending Banzai falling into it, whilst they saw Simba escape into the sandy desert...

As depicted in the original film, Timon's Colony must be located somewhere along side the shallow end of the gorge. Remember, Hyena's can outrun any other animal when it comes to lengthy endurance runs. Yet I wonder how a young cub managed to constantly outrun the hyena's being faster then his adult adversaries.

PS: If anyone has new relevant information regarding new found facts or theories, please do feel free to post them here as you like! TG and I won't bite