Simba and Zira similarities

[Hatari05]

I was just wondering something. I've always liked the whole story and dynamic between Simba and Zira I actually found it more interesting than his story with Scar I always wondered why but eventually it hit me Simba and Zira are mirror images of each other, just hear all this.

Simba was the prince of the pride lands whose father was killed and usurped, the usurper than sent Simba into exile eventually he discovered the truth and sought revenge though he didn't kill Scar he did take revenge on his followers, after Scar's death Simba struggled to uphold the legacy of his father who held to near mythic levels doing everything the way he believed his father would want him to. He controls his daughters entire life refusing to allow her the freedom she wishes and at times keeping her from living the she wants. He refuses to let go of his hatred of Scar which causes him to mistakenly hurt his own daughter and nearly tear his family apart.

Any of this sound familiar or more accurately does all of this sound familiar. Zira was royalty whose loved one was killed then usurped, the usurper sends her into exile she seeks revenge while struggling to uphold the memory of her loved one basing every decision she makes off what she thinks he would want, controls her children's life, refuses to let go of her hatred of Simba which eventually hurts her entire family and tears apart.

Simba may as well be looking in a mirror the darker side of who he could've become. They constantly make similar decisions Zira rejects the Kiara and the Pride Landers Simba rejects Kovu. Zira ignores Kovu wants and needs to further her plans while Simba kind of does the same thing not even answering Kiara's question during we are one unintentionally but still. Zira rejects Kovu for not being Scar Simba reject him because he thinks he is they both exile him. Both blame others for the pain they cause, Zira blames Kovu and Simba for Nuka's death despite the fact that it's clearly her's. Simba blames Kovu for using and hurting Kiara not realizing it's him, poor Kovu he really is everyone's scapegoat.

Kiara did more than save the prides she saved her father he was still a noble person but Simba was on darker path at the time his hatred hadn't completely consumed him he still loved his family while Zira whose hatred completely consumed her forgot her love for them long ago as shown with Nuka's death that's the thing that separates them in the end Kiara could reach him while Kovu couldn't reach Zira.

I'm just wondering am I the only one who ever really thought of this did anybody else here notice it. I always really liked this about them, one of the things I really liked about Simba's Pride is despite being one of the main characters the Deutagonist I think, Simba is also one of the central antagonist of the movie he's not a villain Zira is clearly the villain but he's definitely one of the main obstacles Kiara has to overcome in fact he is Kiara's opponent she never really gets involved with Zira until the ending and both of Kiara's defining moments is when she finally confronts her father and tells him he's wrong. I find that bold I can't name many Disney's or really many sequels where the hero of the first is one of the antagonist of the second, naturally not everyone will see it this way but I do think it's an interesting perspective of it all anyone agree with me or at least kind of see my perspective if not then please put how you saw the Simba and Zira dynamic a different perspective is always welcomed.





[SimbasGuard]

I never really gave the Simba/Zira dynamic any thought. You make some very interesting points.

[Zirafan999]

Ah, I've seen the similarities between the two, it's why in my fanon that they are related.

[TheLionPrince]

[quote="Hatari05"]Any of this sound familiar or more accurately does all of this sound familiar. Zira was royalty whose loved one was killed then usurped, the usurper sends her into exile she seeks revenge while struggling to uphold the memory of her loved one basing every decision she makes off what she thinks he would want, controls her children's life, refuses to let go of her hatred of Simba which eventually hurts her entire family and tears apart[/quote]

I don't recall anywhere in the movie where Zira was mentioned to be of royalty. True, she did call Kovu "my little prince" and in one deleted scene, she mentioned that if Scar was still alive, she would be his "loving, devoted queen". However, she never did mate with Scar, and it's doubtful she was recognized as the queen of the pride during Scar's reign.

Other than some annoying grammatical errors, you make an excellent point. It's always been smart writing for two characters to be polar opposites of each other. As for the statement about the hero of the first being one of the antagonist of the second movie, Simba's Pride did begin a trend or trope in the direct-to-video sequels where the adventurous, care-free title protagonist became the overprotective parent in the sequel. This happened in Lady and the Tramp II: Scamp's Adventure and The Little Mermaid II: Return to the Sea where Scamp and Melody (the protagonists) try to break free of their parent(s)' overprotectiveness, and run away from home. Keep in mind, an antagonist does not carry the same meaning as villain, but Tramp and Ariel were opposing their child's rebelliousness, and after their child ran away, they saw the errors of their ways.

[Hatari05]

Yeah I forgot her being royalty was never mentioned I guess after reading about it all the time in nearly every fan theory as well as writing about it myself eventually just makes you believe it, though it always made sense to me Zira acted like someone who lost a lover and her devotion seemed similar throw in the fact that all original scripts had her as Scar's mate and it's not surprising that a lot of people myself as well mistake it as the truth.

You are correct though I don't feel those sequels did it as well, mainly because I see Scamp as highly ungrateful and Ariel was in a way right considering what happened at her daughters birth. For me what makes the difference is Simba's conflict isn't just with Kiara it's with Kovu as well and his view point about the outsiders causes a lot of the movie to happen, basically Ariel is trying to protect her daughter much like Triton was beyond that she doesn't really do anything wrong, and I consider Tramp the hero of Lady and the Tramp II that Scamp learns from. While Simba is wrong his actions are the reason Zira is so filled with hate. His hatred of Scar drives a lot of the movie and he's just as much an antagonist as Zira is.

You are once again correct an antagonist and villain are not the same though some people do mistake them as the same understandably as more often than not they come hand and hand however you can have both. Zira as I said is clearly the villain she is consumed by hatred is the enemy of Simba and is the sole reason the outsiders want to kill Simba and his pride in the first place she also brainwashed Kovu all those years and mistreats Nuka leading to his death nearly every bad thing in the movie can be traced back to her.

However an antagonist much like you said isn't a villain they're a primary obstacle the hero or protagonist as they can also be different people must overcome. Simba is for the most part the antagonist because Kiara doesn't even know about Zira's plan no one does except Kovu so the entire second act is about convincing Simba to both give Kovu a chance and be willing to trust Kiara. The main conflict there isn't Zira's plot it's Simba's hatred of Scar and his legacy. This still plays a massive role in the third act even after Zira's plan is revealed Kiara's conflict is still mostly with Simba and the most critical part of her story is in my opinion not when she tries to save Zira but when she finally convinces Simba to let go thus overcoming her main obstacle.

That was a little long sorry my point being that I don't consider Ariel and Tramp antagonist because they're right, the moment Melody does her own thing everything goes bad and every time Scamp disobeys Tramp things get worse it's only when he finally listens to him that he at long last makes the right choice. Everyone except the villain buster says Scamp is wrong while Kiara despite making some mistakes is absolutely right about Kovu, Simba the outsiders everything takes her bit to see it but that's the main difference that separates those sequels for me.

Sorry about the grammar I've always had trouble determining where commas should and shouldn't go and sometimes just forget that I misses a few words it's a real flaw and I'm trying to improve on it, thanks for giving me your view.

[cubbykovu]

You make a real good point they are polar opposites I feel sorry for poor Kovu V>V poor guy everything turns out all right in the end though, Simba did need to let go just as Zira needed to she used her cubs for nothing but to further her own goals I firmly believe if Kovu had proved to be weaker and pathetic she would have killed him and used Nuka or Vitani to kill Simba, That is how much I believe she only love her cubs for what they could give her. Just look at the way she gives Kovu up to Simba for example. I not sure what she was playing at there but talk about sinister. Simba is similar in many ways he give Kiara to timon and Pumbaa to look after the two most useless guys in the history of the world XD

[Hatari05]

That's what makes things so interesting there always so many ways to look at things for example while Zira does offer up Kovu she shows genuine remorse when Nuka dies being the only time in the film she cries so did she deep down care about him more, could she bring herself to kill Vitani considering she didn't attack Kovu right away when he was standing in her way despite him being a clear traitor to her.

Timon and Pumba are pretty useless I guess he keeps trusting them because they're practically family to him still poor judgement on his part.

[SimbasGuard]

[quote="Hatari05"]could she bring herself to kill Vitani considering she didn't attack Kovu right away when he was standing in her way despite him being a clear traitor to her.[/quote]

I believe that Zira would have had no problem with trying to kill Vitani. I think the reason Zira did not attack Kovu is because she did not want to wast any energy before she got a chance to fight Simba again.

[quote="Hatari05"]Timon and Pumba are pretty useless I guess he keeps trusting them because they're practically family to him still poor judgement on his part.[/quote]

Well from Simba's perspective, Timon and Pumbaa raised him and he survived. Technically they should have been able to keep an eye on Kiara.

[Gaze]

thanks for bringing up these points! I don't think I'd ever truly thought about it before, although I guess the scene where Kovu and Kiara interrupt the battle between Simba and Zira kind of works to illustrate the similarities between the two.

it's little details like this that have really been making me appreciate SP more lately. though it's still just a direct-to-video sequel with its share of flaws, I think there are more subtleties to it than I initially realized.

[Hatari05]

Just something I noticed over time though to me Simba's Pride is not a direct to dvd movie as I find it better than most disney movies from a story and character stand point. The movie was probably too ambitious for it's own good Kovu's arc by itself would normally be focused on as much as Simba's from the first if it were the only focus but you also have Kiara and Simba's relationship, Simba's struggle to live up to his fathers legacy, Nuka and Zira, the love story, and the conflict between the two prides I mean that's a lot for 75 minutes too much probably.

Though as far as things go I think the movie did good with what time it had yes some things were rushed but on a whole I think it did well and is far better than almost any direct to dvd (that isn't a Dc movie holy cow are those awesome) I can think of. Then again I love the Lion King II it ranks in my top three or four Disney movies which in truth would probably explain why I noticed this in the first place when you love a movie you examine it closely and see things others wouldn't.