Why didn't Mufasa tell Simba?

[Annie]

When Mufasa appears in the clouds to Simba, why doesn't he tell Simba that he was murdered by Scar? And all that crippling guilt he's been feeling for years is wrong, as he wasn't to blame?
Surely that would have made Simba want to go back home and face his Mother and defeat Scar, more than telling him he's forgotten himself and is the rightful King.

Or, perhaps it wasn't actually Mufasa after all and just the knowledge Rafiki has? But we see Rafiki talking to Mufasa in the wind in SP, so surely he would have known about Mufasa's murder?

What are your thoughts?

[KopsTheTerminator]

I thought Mufasa might have thought it would be better for Simba to face that and figure it out on his own as it would help him grow better than just telling him outright the truth. Or something.

The actual reason is probably because that would just be awkward in the film. It would just kill Simba's inner conflict too early and make the 'back to Pride Rock' scenes a bit underwhelming IMO.

[Amur_Tiger]

You can kinda make a case for Mufasa wanting to get Simba to focus on the big picture lesson instead of just running back to murder scar for revenge, but it's a pretty weak case.

Worse yet the whole 'but we wanted to maintain tension' case is pretty poor because there was a lovely lioness chomping at the bit to be the one to get to convince Simba to head back home, who didn't have any extra knowledge that would have led to a less dramatic climax. Which is part of what leads me to the idea that Rafiki's entire role in the movie is unnecessary.

[Elton John]

Because Simba was just.... Hallucinating isn't the right word... I believe that the intent of the creators of the first film was that Simba didn't literally see Mufasas ghost but that Simba was seeing Mufasa inside of himself in a slightly more ethereal form.

I always saw 'the great kings of the past' speech as a story passed down to comfort young royalty about the eventuality of their parents dying. Or possibly Mufasa made it up on the spot just to comfort simba.

It's that many took it as that being Mufasas actual spirit. So they just rolled with that in the sequels.

'Look harder, you see, he lives in you'. I see that as Rafiki seeing what made Mufasa, mufasa, inside of Simba.

'He's alive! I'll show him to you!'

His legacy was living on inside simba.

'Remember who you are, you are my son and the one true king'

'Mufasa' told simba this years later instead of 'scar killed me' right after death because Simba can't tell himself in visions about things that he doesn't know about. Simba didn't know that Scar kiled Mufasa, so a ghostly form that was inside Simbas head or possibly a vision created by rafiki couldn't tell him that.

But I could be very wrong since that scene was apparently supposed to be a reference to moses and the burning bush.

[Rollo]

There's an excellent argument to be had that Simba is hallucinating and that Mufasa isn't really there. I know that's what I've come to believe. I've always interpreted the scene as Simba's depression and guilt coming to a massive climax. Having just seen Nala, his first connection with the Pridelands in years, he's suddenly reminded of his childhood and his homeland and everything he once knew. The repressed memories and emotions he's held back for so long coming on all at once, and bringing forth the long forgotten image of his father, which he no doubt tried his hardest to forget. The last time he saw his dad was a dead body. But in this scene, while still ghostly, he's perfectly intact. No bruises, no blood. (Even though we didn't see that in the movie, you know that's what would've occurred.)

It's sort of like a big meltdown, but it isn't crippling. It's enlightening for Simba.

Think of it as Nala triggering Simba's awakening. I always thought that what Mufasa tells Simba in the scene are things he's always known deep down, but he's denied himself to believe or to follow. "Remember who you are." "You are the one true king." Simba knows this. This is what he was taught as a child. Finally, he realises that his fate is not something he can escape. He can't turn his back on his real family and the circle of life. He's having a conversation with himself, essentially, weighing out both sides, but remembering his father and connecting his appearance because he's the one who taught him all of these things. He's the one who planted these beliefs in him.

Rafiki is suggested to be spiritual, so perhaps he can see this happening because of 'magic', to be vague. But I don't think anyone else would've witnessed it. It's a personal thing to Simba. I think it's evidence of how strong faith and love can be, that it manifests itself into this powerful, overwhelmingly hallucination (after all, he's crying toward the end of it.)

So the reason Mufasa didn't tell Simba that Scar killed him is because Simba didn't know that - and Mufasa is repeating things back to him that he knows deep down inside.

It's a shame, because as I write this I realise how much this scene loses its creative/spiritual credibility because of the way it's used in the Lion Guard, with Mufasa continually coming back and presenting Kion with knowledge he apparently is not already aware of. You could assume that Kion already has the answers Mufasa gives him, he just lacks the confidence to believe in himself, much like Simba did, and the image of 'Mufasa' helped to awaken that.

[Elton John]

It isn't just in the lion guard but mufasas spirit plays a role in tlk2 for a few scenes. Not in the same way as tlk1 but considering the opening song is 'he lives in you' impies that it's not his spirit while it shows differently in the film itself.

[Rollo]

I always connected He Lives In You to the first film anyway, which is what I see as being truly canon, considering that's where the line is from, and what the song was written for (just in more of a 'tribute' way) instead of the second movie. I think people forget that HLIY was released in 1995. Simba's Pride really does contradict the meaning of his spirit living on and relies a little bit too heavily on Rafiki being 'magic' to justify their communication, which kinda bothers me.

[TheLionPrince]

I posted my thoughts on a similar thread asking this question a few years ago. I'll paraphrase it similar to what Kops and Amur_Tiger said. Mufasa wanted Simba to return back to the Pride Lands with his mind set on becoming the future king of the Pride Lands, not on exacting revenge against Scar. He wanted what was best for his son to return back home with hope and optimism, and he was probably aware of Simba's immaturity so Mufasa didn't want Simba to return back home with anger and bitterness because he would likely carry that when he inherits the throne. Plus, it was done for story reasons. Scar's "guilt trip" tactic wouldn't work and be anti-climatic if Simba already knew the truth. And yes, Mufasa probably wanted Simba to find out for himself.

[quote="Elton John"]Because Simba was just.... Hallucinating isn't the right word... I believe that the intent of the creators of the first film was that Simba didn't literally see Mufasas ghost but that Simba was seeing Mufasa inside of himself in a slightly more ethereal form.

I always saw 'the great kings of the past' speech as a story passed down to comfort young royalty about the eventuality of their parents dying. Or possibly Mufasa made it up on the spot just to comfort simba.

It's that many took it as that being Mufasas actual spirit. So they just rolled with that in the sequels.

'Look harder, you see, he lives in you'. I see that as Rafiki seeing what made Mufasa, mufasa, inside of Simba.

'He's alive! I'll show him to you!'

His legacy was living on inside simba.

'Remember who you are, you are my son and the one true king'[/quote]

Nope. Listen to the audio commentary recorded by Roger Allers, Rob Minkoff, and Don Hahn. They never confirm Simba seeing Mufasa's ghost to be a hallucination and repeatedly say "Mufasa's ghost" throughout the scene. Seeing the sequence as hallucination may work as a theory, but it's not confirmed by the filmmakers.

The hallucination theory has been thrown for many years, but I don't believe it because it undermines the spiritual and mystic aspects of the scene and the father-son relationship arc. If the ghost was all in Simba's head, there's nothing encouraging or uplifting about everything Mufasa and Rafiki was trying to say. It's almost like saying "my ancestors/relatives don't live in me spiritually" and "they don't watch over the living when they pass away". And I don't believe Mufasa to be a liar like Scar is so I doubt he made it up on the spot.

[quote="Elton John"]But I could be very wrong since that scene was apparently supposed to be a reference to moses and the burning bush.[/quote]

That is in fact true. On the supplement on the 2003 DVD release called "Story Origins", Don Hahn admits the scene was directly inspired from Hamlet when he sees his father's spirit in what follows to be Simba's "to be or not to be" moment and Moses's encounter with God through the burning bush where Moses acquires wisdom from the visitation.

[quote="Annie"]Or, perhaps it wasn't actually Mufasa after all and just the knowledge Rafiki has? But we see Rafiki talking to Mufasa in the wind in SP, so surely he would have known about Mufasa's murder?[/quote]

I think Simba's Pride ruined that part concerning Rafiki's interaction with Mufasa's spirit. Never once in the original film was it shown that Rafiki can converse to Mufasa's spirit through the wind. And on an unrelated topic, The Lion Guard ruins...utterly ruins by making Mufasa's ghost repeatedly appearing to give Kion advice. Mufasa should only appear very rarely and in the characters' most desperate moments.

[Amur_Tiger]

The whole Mufasa's ghost thing goes back to before the script, recall that this is Hamlet with lions after all and that's lifted directly from the play. As I've suggested I'm not actually convinced this makes the movie better, as Nala's right there to take the role of convincing him and there's a lot more strength of character displayed with getting through this without Mufasa-storm telling him directly. However this is very much part and parcel of the film in it's original intent even if it crosses a few wires in doing so.

I think the discussion here about 'He lives in You' helps underscore this tension between the original plot of Hamlet and the plot that arose out of trying to adopt it for a Disney Savannah adventure. In Hamlet the ghost-father wants Hamlet to go get revenge, the whole 'coming of age' theme that tends to run through a lot of Disney movies isn't really there, it's much more about the futility and destructiveness of revenge. I think this is part of why the ghost scene ends up being a bit awkward as it's a scene designed around another very different purpose, not the impetus to a 'coming of age' moment for a Lion.

With that said I'm very much glad Disney was willing to step outside of their comfort zone and into the deep end of the pool as far as darker plots and drama are concerned and I don't think it's any accident that the result, TLK, is one of the best Disney films out there. In opening themselves to more possibilities then the norm and trying to stretch the idea of what a Disney film could be they made something remarkable. It could have blown up in their faces but art without risk of failure invariably ends up boring prescribed pablum written to a well worn formula. A Disney angle on a Shakespearean tragedy is inherently novel even though it's drawing from two well-used formulas.

[Captain Cupcake]

[quote="TheLionPrince"][quote="Elton John"]But I could be very wrong since that scene was apparently supposed to be a reference to moses and the burning bush.[/quote]

That is in fact true. On the supplement on the 2003 DVD release called "Story Origins", Don Hahn admits the scene was directly inspired from Hamlet when he sees his father's spirit in what follows to be Simba's "to be or not to be" moment and Moses's encounter with God through the burning bush where Moses acquires wisdom from the visitation.[/quote]

If I recall correctly, the Hamlet parallel was more of a happy accident, as the biblical and other story influences preceded the Shakespearean ones, and that it was only when they made Scar Mufasa's brother that those similarities started to take form. So what ws once just a Burning Bush parallel suddenly became something that mirrored both sources of inspiration.